[TCUG] Re: 'Wacky ideas'
- From: Dick Andrews <RAndrews@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:46:35 +0100
Totally agree about right left staggers - its probably better to encourage
the ped to push the button and stop rather than take a chance which a left
right stagger encourages - but I doubt anybody has studied the relative
accident rates.
Dick
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Overton [SMTP:dtoverton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 11 June 2004 18:57
> To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [TCUG] Re: 'Wacky ideas'
>
> Mervyn
>
> Thanks for that. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear - I fully endorse
> your opinion about the efficiency which staggered crossings bring, but the
> advantage is in the separate signalling, not in the physical stagger.
> With
> near-side indicators it is only moderately wacky to consider retaining the
> separate signalling of each carriageway but without physically staggering
> them. All the efficiency advantages with a much neater layout. Other
> people do it ...
>
> And another thing - can we kill once and for all the view of some safety
> auditors that all staggers should be left-right! Let's hear it for the
> right-left stagger! Crossing on the approach side is then at the stop
> line.
> Crossing on the exit side far enough from the junction for traffic to be
> travelling straight and to give the peds sight of them. More efficient
> and
> safer.
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tcug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tcug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> Behalf Of mervyn.hallworth@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 11 June 2004 17:21
> To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [TCUG] Re: 'Wacky ideas'
>
>
>
>
> David,
>
> Thanks for helping to put many of these issues into context. I was going
> to mention the way the Australians use red arrows - in the opposite sense
> to the way we use filter arrows (i.e. they stop right-turners using an
> amber arrow then a red arrow - after which they drop the red arrow off!),
> but I thought we were probably still 2 decades away from that in UK!
>
> Not sure about your comment about staggered crossings - we certainly don't
> put them in for any 'see through' reasons at junctions - we put them in
> largely for efficiency reasons (as a form of parallel peds they help
> minimise the dreaded congestion!). I think that Birmingham have recently
> 'outlawed' all-round peds in favour of staggered crossings on the basis of
> congestion - care to comment Paul?
>
> I know staggers are not popular with 'planners', but I really do believe
> they can be more meaningful to pedestrians - in the sense that for each
> crossing arm they can be more often faced with a clear-cut situation -
> there's either 'traffic' or there's a 'green man'. I know things are never
> that perfect, but contrast this with an (inefficient) all-red stage which
> has a red man up for so much of the cycle (including the inevitable period
> to protect peds against non-existent left turners) that the red man signal
> can become meaningless.
>
> Mervyn
> 0113 2476750
>
>
>
>
>
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