Its funny that when you put "whacky" into a heading all the old codgers emerge from the woodwork! Whilst the UK has one of the best KSI accident rates in the developed world, it has a very poor rate for vulnerable road users. About 30% of fatalities are pedestrians. The kneejerk reaction is to provide more ped facilities, with longer crossing times and shorter wait times. Maybe the policy of over protecting the pedestrian gives them a false sense of security and we might gain from following the policies in other countries.......... Dick ----------------------------------------------------------- A message from the TCUG mailing list. For information about the list visit //www.freelists.org/webpage/tcug