[SI-LIST] Re: Need for SI Service Bureaus?
- From: "Bill Hargin" <billh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bkatz@xxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:22:22 -0800
Hi Barry:
I hate to dogpile on an old thread like this, but you raise an interesting
question which still remains from a tools standpoint:
> advanced designs. However as 250+ MHz memory systems and 500+ MHz system
> data rates are becoming more common, existing tools and
> techniques no longer
> sufficiently address all of the potential SI problems.
This point is followed by a discussion re. behavioral models, but I would
tend to separate that from the "tools" discussion (i.e., though the two
subjects are related, I draw a line between the quality of the IBIS spec,
for instance, and the quality of semiconductor mfgr's response to the spec).
What are you suggesting that the existing tools lack? (I could provide my
own list, but am curious as to what you or others would like to see on the
tools front ... beyond my own pontifications.)
Best Regards,
Bill Hargin
Direct: 425-702-0744
Fax: 425-702-0305
Cognition Consulting
Electronic Design Software and Consulting
http://www.CognitionConsulting.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Barry Katz
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 7:45 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Need for SI Service Bureaus?
>
>
>
> All,
>
> Just catching up my mail. But here are my two cents.
>
> The industry HAS reached the point where companies must revamp their
> approach to signal integrity analysis. This includes
> implementing effective
> tools and methodologies, as well as considering outsourcing.
>
> Until recently, most signal integrity issues could be addressed
> using sound
> design and layout techniques. Simulations were only used for the most
> advanced designs. However as 250+ MHz memory systems and 500+ MHz system
> data rates are becoming more common, existing tools and
> techniques no longer
> sufficiently address all of the potential SI problems. Two of the most
> visible manifestations of this situation are the low quality behavioral
> models supplied for ?free? (?free? is a relative term) by the
> semiconductor
> industry and the increased number of spins before a design is released.
>
> The stark reality is there are manifold issues to consider when
> embarking on
> a new high-speed design. Hspice, IBIS, and Timing libraries must be
> created. Simulations must be run across the entire solution
> space (a broad
> topic in itself) to ensure operation across all corner conditions. The
> resultant mountain of data must be effectively managed AND
> interpreted. And
> of course, the timelines allotted to perform these activities is
> constantly
> shrinking.
>
> In summary, three conditions must exist to ensure that a high-speed design
> project is successful:
>
> 1. A rigorous and thorough design, simulation, and analysis
> methodology must
> be in place
>
> 2. A simulation and analysis environment capable of
> efficiently managing
> thousands of simulations and tens of thousands of edges must be in place
>
> 3. Experienced signal integrity engineers must oversee the application
> aforementioned tools and methodology
>
> The absence of one condition will make design success very
> challenging. The
> absence of two or three conditions will make success nearly impossible.
>
> In short, today?s high-speed designs require a more advanced set of tools
> and techniques. Whether they are deployed internally or
> outsourced are both
> viable options. Outsourcing can provide a significant benefit to design
> teams by allowing them to access a significant breadth of skills and
> experience.
>
> Barry
>
>
> Barry Katz
> President & CTO
> Signal Integrity Software, Inc.
> 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250
> Maynard, MA 01754
> O: 978 461 0449 x19
> M: 978 618 9078
> www.sisoft.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Shawn Arnold
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 11:47 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Need for SI Service Bureaus?
>
>
> To all list members,
>
> A few of us in Silicon Valley have been discussing the need for a
> Specctraquest "type", tools to be determined by market demands, Signal
> Integrity service bureau, similar to PCB design service bureaus.
>
> After researching the market, we have noticed that there are a
> small handful
> of EMS players that offer this service, but they concentrate on the
> "complete" system build for their top tier clients. We have also noticed
> that a couple of PCB design service bureaus have poked into this area, but
> typically will not pay for quality SI talent to do the job correctly and
> have gotten bad reputations already, the same can be said for a
> few top tier
> PCB fabricators.
>
> Has the market reached a point where outsourcing of these
> typically internal
> resources is a valid business model and under what conditions
> would you use,
> or not use, this type of service?
>
> Please respond, pro or con. All comments welcome.
>
> Sincerely,
> Shawn Arnold
>
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