[SI-LIST] Re: Article discussion on bad packages
- From: "Lee Ritchey" <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Michael E. Vrbanac" <vrbanacm@xxxxxxxxxx>, Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:12:27 -0800
Michael,
Well put. The problem is very large and not getting smaller. As you
stated, this is a problem of long standing that has been swept under the
rug one time too many. I was a significant promoter of this article and
know that it will be followed with more that are specific as to causes and
solutions.
We are long overdue for good engineering in all packages, not just the ones
that are identified as "high speed" from the start.
Lee W. Ritchey
Speeding Edge
P. O. Box 2194
Glen Ellen, CA 95442
Phone- 707-568-3983
FAX- 707-568-3504
I just used the energy it took to be angry to write some blues.
Count Basie
> [Original Message]
> From: Michael E. Vrbanac <vrbanacm@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 12/24/2004 12:44:11 PM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Article discussion on bad packages
>
> Aubrey,
> Wishing you the best during this holiday season...
>
> What I really think? If you knew me, you would already know. :-)
>
> re: the issue at hand... device/package/pcb PDS issues
> I have already been fighting this "battle" for at least a decade and a
> half as have been Scott, Steve,
> and others and while I haven't been a personal confidant in their work
> on this, I am sure most of it
> would not be surprising to me since physics seems to be consistent that
> way and we are looking
> at the same sort of structures and have similar electrodynamic events
> going on. I am hoping that
> there will be enough of us to finally move this thing forward without
> all the FUD (fear, uncertainty,
> and doubt) that has preceded on this. While my knowledge on this is
> under "gag rule", I am
> cheering these guys on because I think "we'll" get it done this time.
> If it doesn't, your employer
> might find it hard to keep momentum on building new servers and
> computers. Given the import
> of that possibility, its not time to mince words about articles like that.
>
> re: how to do an article like that... properly
> How about avoid "dissing" companies and instead cite "unnamed"
> situations where a real problem
> existed? You'd get a lot more folks offering up their horror stories.
> But don't stop there. Discuss
> what caused such things and what are the ramifications of doing it
> right/wrong. Write it in such
> a way as to allow folks to look at their situation and be able to
> compare it and then learn from it.
> The article that was published really did not do that. It was too
> clouded with other things more
> suited for an advertising piece than a technical piece. You must first
> start from a firm and sound
> technical basis from which to move forward.
>
> re: a battle already won
> Not yet, my friend. Knowing what is wrong is not the same as
> implementing it in practice.
> Perhaps we will be there but not without some paradigms getting shifted,
> though. I happen to know
> it is far from over. The infrastructure to cause the problem is still
> well in place and will continue
> to affect you and others for a while yet.
>
> re: the most effective way
> Build bridges to what? To the same situation we've lived with for so
> long? Being politically
> correct has its places but you shouldn't be too soft spoken when "the
> house is burning down"
> as it is for many of these companies cited in the article. Nice
> platitudes but the time for that is over.
> Companies are losing their shirts and if we have any sort of decency and
> professional dignity
> about us, we'd better be about solving the problem instead of making a
> "bogey-man" out of it.
>
> Now I've spent much more time on discussing the article than I intended
> and not on the problem
> at hand which was the point of my first message. Focus on the real
> problem at hand instead of the
> problems that the article caused. That is what gives "forward motion".
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Michael E. Vrbanac
>
>
> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> >Michael,
> >Why don't you tell us what you really think? :-)
> >
> >While I agree that the problem has been around awhile, I thought the
> >benefit of this article to the SI community was to put a spotlight on
> >the problem, thus "some constructive "forward motion" toward solving the
> >problem." Indeed, I'm not sure of the benefit of discussing the problem
> >(companies designing products without proper resources) in this forum.
> >A discussion in this forum would be a little like "preaching to the
> >choir"; this problem seems more related to business decisions rather
> >than technical ones.
> >
> >What better method to move the issue forward than to publish successes
> >and failures? Anyone want to take a survey and publish? And where to
> >publish is important; the target audience isn't SI Engineers. While
> >there are many of us who would like to see that article, if you are in a
> >position to take that article and put in on your bosses desk, you are
> >most likely fighting a battle that someone already won.
> >
> >To be most effective the target audience needs to be those who want to
> >"build bridges" without proper engineering support.
> >
> >But that's just my opinion.
> >
> >Happy Holidays!
> >Aubrey Sparkman
> >Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
> >Dell, Inc.
> >Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
> >(512) 723-3592
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >On Behalf Of Michael E. Vrbanac
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:33 AM
> >To: scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Cc: silist
> >Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Article discussion on bad packages
> >
> >Scott,
> >
> >I wasn't terribly impressed. What was the point? That news is so old
> >its got mold on it.
> >
> >I'm trying to figure out what it was for except to fill some space in EE
> >Times, was it a promotional advertisement for a consultant, or promoting
> >two companies and dissing two, etc.? There were no answers and no
> >solutions offered, plenty of gloom and doom, the industry is in the tank
> >on this issue, and there certainly doesn't seem to be enough simulator
> >"pilots" to do all the simulation we need to do and everyone is to blame
> >for "it" (whoever and whatever that is). I guess that means we need to
> >call in a "superhero", eh? Frankly, we've had better discussions on
> >this forum about that topic than that was.
> >What a waste.
> >
> >Enough of that...
> >I am hoping your query is to stimulate some constructive "forward
> >motion" toward solving the problem.
> >Its been around for a very long time.
> >
> >Michael E. Vrbanac
> >
> >
> >Scott McMorrow wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>I'd be interested in peoples thoughts about the following article from
> >>today's EE Times.
> >>
> >>http://www.eedesign.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=55801038
> >>
> >>
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