Hi: The only question I have about open source for a phone is who will maintain the app code basis for the apps? Look at how problematic that has become for a code base as the JAWS Scripts for Visual Studio and other MS Applications. Over and over I have seen guys develop great software for free or low cost but over the years they have to move on, lose interest or otherwise are not available for maintenance or new development of the same code base. That said, I don't know which is going to be better but will have to get something next year. Microsoft has not even pretended that they care about acc4essibility anymore and only recently said they will add it to wp7 over the next few years, or not.
Rick USA----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:13 PM Subject: Re: android app development
Yep; seen all those issues as well. Busy, ready busy...terminal focus tracking issues in emacs, etc... Laggy character cursoring, instability with XCode, crazy involved hotkeys (five fingered +), moving up and down the "interaction" navigational tree, etc... (to name a few issues). However, Jaws has a bad habit of not saying anything at all to only come back if you kill this process or close that window. Not to mention that you're really toast if you need to do any maintenance involving any pre-full Windows boot environment without some creative hacking. Best solution is just to run a hacked OSX on one partition and Win7 on another. (or Windows in Fusion on a Mac. iPhone VoiceOver, on the other hand, works pretty well when compared to Talks/MS wrt stability. Feature set's evolving pretty nicely as well though bugs always are an issue. On 12/16/10, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I don't know that it's my liking for jaws--I was able to adapt to speakup relatively easy, but just the problems it has. For example, did you know turning off voiceover makes things copy faster? It's true. It also has a very very bad habbit of telling me an app is busy, ready, busy, ready, etc until I command tab out. Untarring lots of files (or lots of text scrolling through the terminal), has a bad habbit of crashing. It also doesn't seem to like google's new autocomplete thing (which again makes it freeze). I do like some of it's features, I just know that it's got lots of minor issues that make it really problematic to work with. On 12/16/2010 6:59 PM, Dave wrote:I agree with just about all that you said. voiceover does have a lot todo !become comparable with Jaws. However, part of your dislike is likely your familiarity with Jaws. there's fundamental stability issues in Jawsthat don't exist in voiceover because Voiceover only goes so low in its retrieval of ax info. jaws goes down to the gdi level. Hence you getrandom crap read to you at times. I won't say one is better thn the other but jaws is far better as a screen reader for developers simply because itseems more apt for text editing. Android on the other hand, is another story. As a platform, for sighted users, the difference isn't that dramatic when compared to iphone. however, on android there's lack ofsupport for many basic features. this is likely to change in the future, but it's very hard to argue a point from vacuous possibilities. android'salso a harder nut to crack because of the diversity of hardware and software. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2010, at 5:37 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I do know it's nice, I've seen it being used. But I think a lot of peopleare flocking to it, without looking anywhere else, (like android). Ispeak from experience, because I got my Mac around the same time everyoneelse was getting theirs--possibly a bit before. Voiceover was great, it works out of the box. but voiceover has many many problems that I don't experience with jaws. I know that jaws does have it's problems, butvoiceover still has some cleanup to do before it can be quite as good in comparison. A lot of the "IPhone will never compare to android" is comingfrom people who are amazed at the fact that "gosh, it works out of the box!" and haven't taken a look at android. On 12/16/2010 6:01 PM, Dave wrote:loving it. try sending an email from your mobile device. you gotta give apple some credit for making something that many blind people canactually use as opposed to having unrealized potential. how old are youanyways? Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2010, at 4:13 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Sent from my iPhoneAnother one on the IGasm train... On 12/16/2010 4:34 PM, Dave wrote:are you kidding me? have you even used an android device? they're not even in the same league. Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 16, 2010, at 1:45 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:And how long did it take apple to decide to support the brailledisplays? so because apple took forever after people joined the IOrgiand android wasn't right up there with them, it's bad? On 12/16/2010 2:41 PM, Alex Hall wrote:I know it is not ideal right now. However: 1. This is the first iteration of braille input and output in iOS, and the first release of anything is never perfect. At least grade 2 output is good, the touch cursor works for editing, and so on. 2. You can just get a case with a bluetooth (qwerty) keyboard that flips out for when you do not want to use the braille. 3. At least braille output is there, making it very convenient to lookup information when it is too noisy to hear the speech, and you caneven turn off speech and still use braille.Sure there are bugs, but I am saying that it is a great deal betterthan Android, and Google did not seem to even make an effort with the 2.3 release... On 12/16/10, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:As for the Braille displays on the IPhone it might support thembut just try to type a web address let me explain how you have to do it because of the stupid way Apple did Braille.Type w three times wait almost 2 seconds sometimes then type low dif you don't wait you will get double d. then type google. Wait till it catches p sometimes its fast sometimes it is not type low d again make sure it catchesup or you will get double d. They did not support computer Brailleso you have to do these stupid work arounds to be able to type. I would rather geta tooth pulled with no anesthetic. So my nice RB18 stays put awayand I type on the screen slowly. Really slow.ly. With my G2 though I can msn rocket fast and I can even search even though the web browser is iffy with ideal it is getting better. I can tell you that in the long run apple will not hold a candle to Android. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 2:56 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: android app development No, I have not used it much, but I have read many reviews, including the recent article about the lack of built in accessibility frameworks all but halting development of better screen readers which could, forexample, provide use of the touch screen for standard UI elements.While Android's accessibility may not be Narrator, my point was that it is far behind where Apple is, and the most recent version ofAndroid did nothing to change that, whereas the most recent versionof iOS added wireless braille support for just about every bluetooth-enabled display I can think of. On 12/16/10, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:You've apparently not used android much. I know people that use itfor quite a lot, and it does more than narrator does. On 12/16/2010 11:38 AM, Alex Midence wrote:So ironic. Downright sad, if you ask me. "In the house of the blacksmith, they use a wooden knife."--Old Latin American saying. "Mechanics' children have broken cars ..." "... A doctor's family never gets cured."--Old proverbs from elsewhere Alex M -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of AlexHall Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:30 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: iOS development? <snip>Android has the equivalent of Microsoft Narrator, whereas iOS hasJAWS, complete with wireless braille display support (which is quite good, especially as it is the first braille support for iOS). __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Thanks, Ty __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Thanks, Ty __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Thanks, Ty __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Thanks, Ty __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Thanks, Ty __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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