RE: android app development
- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 06:53:05 -0500
The eyes free stuff is all being maintained by google. Well all but the web
access stuff and I have a feeling that that will be handled by google as
well. True it's not part of the base but in truth my wife doesn't want
that crap on her phone and neither would I if I was sited. It all is
awesome stuff for the blind though.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 5:46 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: android app development
Hi: The only question I have about open source for a phone is who will
maintain the app code basis for the apps? Look at how problematic that has
become for a code base as the JAWS Scripts for Visual Studio and other MS
Applications. Over and over I have seen guys develop great software for free
or low cost but over the years they have to move on, lose interest or
otherwise are not available for maintenance or new development of the same
code base. That said, I don't know which is going to be better but will have
to get something next year. Microsoft has not even pretended that they care
about acc4essibility anymore and only recently said they will add it to wp7
over the next few years, or not.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: android app development
> Yep; seen all those issues as well. Busy, ready busy...terminal
> focus tracking issues in emacs, etc... Laggy character cursoring,
> instability with XCode, crazy involved hotkeys (five fingered +),
> moving up and down the "interaction" navigational tree, etc...
>
> (to name a few issues).
>
> However, Jaws has a bad habit of not saying anything at all to only
> come back if you kill this process or close that window. Not to
> mention that you're really toast if you need to do any maintenance
> involving any pre-full Windows boot environment without some creative
> hacking.
>
> Best solution is just to run a hacked OSX on one partition and Win7 on
> another. (or Windows in Fusion on a Mac.
>
> iPhone VoiceOver, on the other hand, works pretty well when compared
> to Talks/MS wrt stability. Feature set's evolving pretty nicely as
> well though bugs always are an issue.
>
> On 12/16/10, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I don't know that it's my liking for jaws--I was able to adapt to
>> speakup relatively easy, but just the problems it has. For example, did
>> you know turning off voiceover makes things copy faster? It's true. It
>> also has a very very bad habbit of telling me an app is busy, ready,
>> busy, ready, etc until I command tab out. Untarring lots of files (or
>> lots of text scrolling through the terminal), has a bad habbit of
>> crashing. It also doesn't seem to like google's new autocomplete thing
>> (which again makes it freeze). I do like some of it's features, I just
>> know that it's got lots of minor issues that make it really problematic
>> to work with.
>> On 12/16/2010 6:59 PM, Dave wrote:
>>> I agree with just about all that you said. voiceover does have a lot to
>>> do !become comparable with Jaws. However, part of your dislike is
>>> likely
>>> your familiarity with Jaws. there's fundamental stability issues in
>>> Jaws
>>> that don't exist in voiceover because Voiceover only goes so low in its
>>> retrieval of ax info. jaws goes down to the gdi level. Hence you get
>>> random crap read to you at times. I won't say one is better thn the
>>> other
>>> but jaws is far better as a screen reader for developers simply because
>>> it
>>> seems more apt for text editing. Android on the other hand, is another
>>> story. As a platform, for sighted users, the difference isn't that
>>> dramatic when compared to iphone. however, on android there's lack of
>>> support for many basic features. this is likely to change in the
>>> future,
>>> but it's very hard to argue a point from vacuous possibilities.
>>> android's
>>> also a harder nut to crack because of the diversity of hardware and
>>> software.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2010, at 5:37 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do know it's nice, I've seen it being used. But I think a lot of
>>>> people
>>>> are flocking to it, without looking anywhere else, (like android). I
>>>> speak from experience, because I got my Mac around the same time
>>>> everyone
>>>> else was getting theirs--possibly a bit before. Voiceover was great, it
>>>> works out of the box. but voiceover has many many problems that I don't
>>>> experience with jaws. I know that jaws does have it's problems, but
>>>> voiceover still has some cleanup to do before it can be quite as good
>>>> in
>>>> comparison. A lot of the "IPhone will never compare to android" is
>>>> coming
>>>> from people who are amazed at the fact that "gosh, it works out of the
>>>> box!" and haven't taken a look at android.
>>>> On 12/16/2010 6:01 PM, Dave wrote:
>>>>> loving it. try sending an email from your mobile device. you gotta
>>>>> give apple some credit for making something that many blind people can
>>>>> actually use as opposed to having unrealized potential. how old are
>>>>> you
>>>>> anyways?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 16, 2010, at 4:13 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> Another one on the IGasm train...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/16/2010 4:34 PM, Dave wrote:
>>>>>>> are you kidding me? have you even used an android device? they're
>>>>>>> not even in the same league.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 16, 2010, at 1:45 PM, "Littlefield,
>>>>>>> Tyler"<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And how long did it take apple to decide to support the braille
>>>>>>>> displays? so because apple took forever after people joined the
>>>>>>>> IOrgi
>>>>>>>> and android wasn't right up there with them, it's bad?
>>>>>>>> On 12/16/2010 2:41 PM, Alex Hall wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I know it is not ideal right now. However:
>>>>>>>>> 1. This is the first iteration of braille input and output in iOS,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> the first release of anything is never perfect. At least grade 2
>>>>>>>>> output is good, the touch cursor works for editing, and so on.
>>>>>>>>> 2. You can just get a case with a bluetooth (qwerty) keyboard that
>>>>>>>>> flips out for when you do not want to use the braille.
>>>>>>>>> 3. At least braille output is there, making it very convenient to
>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>>> up information when it is too noisy to hear the speech, and you
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> even turn off speech and still use braille.
>>>>>>>>> Sure there are bugs, but I am saying that it is a great deal
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>> than Android, and Google did not seem to even make an effort with
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> 2.3 release...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/16/10, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> As for the Braille displays on the IPhone it might support
>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>> but just
>>>>>>>>>> try to type a web address let me explain how you have to do it
>>>>>>>>>> because of
>>>>>>>>>> the stupid way Apple did Braille.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Type w three times wait almost 2 seconds sometimes then type low
>>>>>>>>>> d
>>>>>>>>>> if you
>>>>>>>>>> don't wait you will get double d. then type google. Wait till it
>>>>>>>>>> catches p
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes its fast sometimes it is not type low d again make sure
>>>>>>>>>> it catches
>>>>>>>>>> up or you will get double d. They did not support computer
>>>>>>>>>> Braille
>>>>>>>>>> so you
>>>>>>>>>> have to do these stupid work arounds to be able to type. I would
>>>>>>>>>> rather get
>>>>>>>>>> a tooth pulled with no anesthetic. So my nice RB18 stays put
>>>>>>>>>> away
>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>> type on the screen slowly. Really slow.ly. With my G2 though I
>>>>>>>>>> can msn
>>>>>>>>>> rocket fast and I can even search even though the web browser is
>>>>>>>>>> iffy with
>>>>>>>>>> ideal it is getting better. I can tell you that in the long run
>>>>>>>>>> apple will
>>>>>>>>>> not hold a candle to Android.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>>>>>>> Hall
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 2:56 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: android app development
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, I have not used it much, but I have read many reviews,
>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>>> the recent article about the lack of built in accessibility
>>>>>>>>>> frameworks
>>>>>>>>>> all but halting development of better screen readers which could,
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> example, provide use of the touch screen for standard UI
>>>>>>>>>> elements.
>>>>>>>>>> While Android's accessibility may not be Narrator, my point was
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> it is far behind where Apple is, and the most recent version of
>>>>>>>>>> Android did nothing to change that, whereas the most recent
>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> iOS added wireless braille support for just about every
>>>>>>>>>> bluetooth-enabled display I can think of.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/16/10, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> You've apparently not used android much. I know people that use
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> quite a lot, and it does more than narrator does.
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/16/2010 11:38 AM, Alex Midence wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> So ironic. Downright sad, if you ask me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "In the house of the blacksmith, they use a wooden knife."--Old
>>>>>>>>>>>> Latin
>>>>>>>>>>>> American saying.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mechanics' children have broken cars ..." "... A doctor's
>>>>>>>>>>>> family
>>>>>>>>>>>> never gets cured."--Old proverbs from elsewhere
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hall
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:30 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: iOS development?
>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Android has the equivalent of Microsoft Narrator, whereas iOS
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS, complete with wireless braille display support (which is
>>>>>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>>>>>> good, especially as it is the first braille support for iOS).
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Have a great day,
>>>>>>>>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>>>>>>>>> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ty
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ty
>>
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
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>
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