RE: Getting started learning VB6

  • From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 06:50:20 -0500

Hi Jacques,
It sounds like you would want to make sure that you ask the right questions and 
know that they are answered properly. I say that without having a clue about 
how you interviewed your candidates.

Jim

Jim Homme,
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From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacques Bosch
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:01 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6

Hi Rick.

To be fair you have to give the guy without the degree 4 years of experience. 
<smile>
I think you guys are hearing what I am not saying. I can't even remember how we 
got hear any more. I am not promoting the idea of not aspiring to a formal 
education. I am just saying that it is possible the other way also, and a lot 
of passion and hard work.
In the end of the day it comes down to whether somebody can get the job done, 
get it done in the right way for any given environment. And yes, universities 
can give you a good push in the right direction, however, it boils right down 
to the individual in the end.

Something interesting that I experienced in the software company where I was 
part owner;
Over a period of 2 years we had to fill several positions. We must have 
interviewed about 30 candidates in total. What really got to us where these 
people fresh out of university with their degrees that thought they were the 
big answer, and then they totally and utterly crash in the practical test which 
was a very simple program. They had to write a console application in their 
language of choice, when given a root folder, to list the nested folder 
structure below it. We did not tell them to use recursion. (Wait, eventually we 
did start telling them after they made no headway, but it didn't help any).
Before we realized the power of the practical test to separate those who had a 
clue from those who did not, we appointed 2 guys with formal degrees from 
respected universities. The one guy had a good attitude, but was virtually 
useless in terms of any productivity for the next 18 months because he had to 
learn how things worked in the real world. The other guys was an absolute 
disaster. He actually had the degree and several years experience, and was 
extremely smooth and knowledgeable sounding in the interview, and was appointed 
as a senior developer, but was the worst thing we ever did in the company. He 
was clueless, had a bad attitude, but expected all the dues of a "senior" 
position.
There were two other guys, that did not have a degree. The 1 had a 1 year 
diploma, and the other had nothing. These were the two that really shined, and 
besides me and my partner, they made the company work. They were the "junior" 
developers, but blew the other two out of the water. They ended up doing / 
redoing the "senior" guys work.

Again, this is just experience and not an argument against getting a formal 
education. But if I ever hire again, I will make damn sure that I am not conned 
by the implied competence of a degree, but that the person really does know the 
first thing about software engineering in the real world.
I'd rather take somebody that has the aptitude, and good attitude, without the 
degree, and mentor them on the job, than somebody who has a degree, and think 
they know everything, and have to teach them just as much.
All other things being equal though, I would take the person with the degree. 
<smile>

Jacques
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:51 AM, The Elf 
<inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
*sigh*

I disagree with your assessment of visual ability and past capabilities and 
choice of GUI or console programming.

also that is not the only place and way to learn, I have some resources and a 
site that it's original use was for blind programmers, Jamal Mazrui has a site 
devoted to this topic, etc.

my sight is the grab bag site listed under my name below, and Jamal's is:
www.NonvisualDevelopment.org<http://www.NonvisualDevelopment.org>

I do grant that you should go to VB.net or better C#.net so your starting out 
in a current language, and either the vb.net<http://vb.net> 2008 will work 
good, and I hear that 2010 does work with a few more difficulties.

HTH,

elf
Moderator, Blind Access Help
Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
- own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
www.alacorncomputer.com<http://www.alacorncomputer.com>
proprietor, The Grab Bag,
for blind computer users and programmers
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26" 
<jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx<mailto:jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 AM

Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6


There may not be enough money to use and learn dot net.  Fortunately,
mono can be installed and will run on Windows as well as Linux and the
price tag is $0.00.


-----Original Message-----
From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
 On Behalf Of DaShiell,
Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:28
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6

No, not without knowing your visual status.  If you have memory of
having had vision or better yet have a little useable vision your best
bet would be to learn the language with windows forms.  If you have no
memory of vision, then your best bet would be to learn the language
using the console interface, and these are two completely different
paths.


-----Original Message-----
From: 
programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
 On Behalf Of Otis D Blue
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:22
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Getting started learning VB6

Hi,

Could someone suggest where I can go to learn how to use VB as a
beginner?
I would like to get the understanding of the language and how to create
software with it.

Otis Blue

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--

Jacques Bosch

Software Architecture and Development
Independent Contractor
Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726
E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx>

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