That is terrible stats. Frustrating. By the way, I know it is a bit of an up in the air question, but what are general hourly rates that good programmers can earn in the USA. Yes, "good" is also up in the air. <g> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:44 PM, DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 < jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > In the United States even many of the blind with quality formal > educations remain unemployed and unemployable. The employment > demographics remain where they were when Reagan left office. What > separates those that have employment from those that don't is whether > would-be employees have connections with the right insiders or not. > That only happened for me by dumb luck. At the time I was just trying > to get my head around CP/M 2.2 and visited a neighborhood computer > store. I didn't know that the owner of that store would later connect > me up with an individual who very much was one of the right inside > people who ended up taking actions that got me this job. > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacques > Bosch > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 7:31 > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6 > > I must be an exception to the rule. :) > But I am definitely not advocating that you shouldn't go for a formal > education if at all possible. I was only sharing my story. But then I > really did work very hard at it and have read very many books and > articles over the last 12 years, and had some good input from prior > colleagues. > However, I know several good professionals that have similar stories > here in SA. > > > Jacques > > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:18 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Hi: There is just no substitute for a quality formal education. > Ask the folks who run the Human Resources Department at any major > company or government agency. Perhaps overseas this is diferent. I have > found the education systems quite diferent here and abroad as well as > the hiring practices. Here in the United States there is no question > that you need some University level education if you want to get a job > with a Major Company where you might be able to work for many years and > make a living wage for your family.There always exceptions but they are > very, very rare. > If you do not live in the U.S. or you think you can make a > living contracting at world-wide competitive wages such as in India, > Bangladesh, Romainia or other Third World Developing countries then you > can go for it. But, if you want a job with GM, Ford, BA, AAA, AA, MERC > or any other major company or any Us or State or even Local Government > agency you will need some level of formal education. Again there might > be an exception to this, especially if you are blind, but it is not > likely nor will you find any channels for professional advancement in > your career. > Rick USA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jacques Bosch <mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx> > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 6:48 AM > Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6 > > Well, in most cases, probably. But I still maintain, not > in all. > But, hey, that is just me and MHO :) > > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 1:26 PM, John G > <jglists0@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > i think a clear distinction needs to be drawn > between > programming > and > engineering, the latter being a skill or a set > of skills for which a formal training is essential. > > > At 11:12 16/02/2011, you wrote: > > > Hi: If you are considering becoming a > Professional, there is no substitute for a formal education at a quality > University. If you get a degree from a good State University you will > have the logic, cognitive and other skills to become a professional > programmer. That is not something you are likely to do on your own. > Perhaps someone else has done it but in the field they will require at > least a degree, 2 or 4 years, and they will prefer experience as well. > You can get the degree from the school and perhaps some experience there > as well through the Financial Aid Center or by volunteering to help or > even tutor other students. Everything you can get to put on a resume is > what you want and sitting in your paren'ts basement playing with your > computer is not likely to give you much to put on a resume. > Rick USA > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: Getting started learning > VB6 > > > > > .net comes with compilers, as > far as I know. the user could learn a worth-while language, while still > learning to program. You will not find to many job opportunities around > that use Libertybasic, if any, as well as the fact that you need to pay > for Libertybasic, and it still has an IDE as well as a really whacked > syntax you need to learn. I believe (and many schools seem to be > thinking along the same lines as I am), that the OP would be fine > learning something like that. > On 2/15/2011 1:20 PM, RicksPlace > wrote: > > > Hi: Mono sounds nice but > I would not recommend it for a raw beginner. Actually I would not > recommend VB.net to a raw programming beginner. A true beginner needs a > really simple platform like that provided by some simple scripting > language or a easy to learn platform like Power Basic or Liberty Basic. > The concepts of how to write a program by solving problems one step at a > time and then coding one statement, one step, at a time will be daunting > enough. Trying to learn to navigate the VS IDE on top of that is too > much to expect from a totally raw beginner. What is a variable? What > types of variables are there? How would you open a door one step at a > time? How would you balance your checkbook one step at a time and use > algebra symbols in the example solution along with If and End If > statements. These are the things that a beginner needs to learn. The > syntax of a language are secondary to learning how to perform problem > solving using math symbols and then conditional statements and pseudo > code and finally using the syntax of an English Like language. Anyway, I > recommend that if the beginner does not have any programming experience > he try vbscript, Liberty Basic or perhaps Power Basic or something along > those lines to learn about using computer code to solve real world > problems before tackling a productivity tool like VB.net or Visual > Studio. There are e-lists dedicated to these easier languages and when I > was learning I found those folks really helpful and willing to do some > hand-holding while I learned about things. > Perhaps learning to do > some simple applications using VbScript would be a good way to learn > about variables, loops and conditional statements. Then move up to try > something like VB.net. > That way he would just > write some computer statements in a text editor, run them as a simple > script and learn about the basic programming concepts without worrying > about the complexity of the Vb.net IDE which can be daunting in and of > itself. > Rick USA. > ----- Original Message > ----- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26" > <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> > To: > <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, February > 15, 2011 1:08 PM > Subject: RE: Getting > started learning VB6 > > > Mono differs from dot > net in that version 2.0 of dot net and mono work > together across several > platforms. Later versions of dot net are in the > works for support on > mono though. > > -----Original > Message----- > From: > programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, > Tyler > Sent: Tuesday, February > 15, 2011 12:53 > To: > programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Getting > started learning VB6 > > Mono is not the same as > the .net framework. Just get the express edition > > and you're good. Also: > if you are a student, you get vs 2010 free, and > Microsoft also gives out > vs 2010 ultimate to MSDNAA members. > On 2/15/2011 9:31 AM, > DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 wrote: > > > There may not be > enough money to use and learn dot net. Fortunately, > mono can be > installed and will run on Windows as well as Linux and the > price tag is > $0.00. > > > -----Original > Message----- > From: > programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DaShiell, > Jude T. CIV > NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 > Sent: Tuesday, > February 15, 2011 11:28 > To: > programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: > Getting started learning VB6 > > No, not without > knowing your visual status. If you have memory of > having had > vision or better yet have a little useable vision your best > bet would be to > learn the language with windows forms. If you have no > memory of > vision, then your best bet would be to learn the language > using the > console interface, and these are two completely different > paths. > > > -----Original > Message----- > From: > programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Otis D > > > Blue > > > Sent: Tuesday, > February 15, 2011 11:22 > To: > programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Getting > started learning VB6 > > Hi, > > Could someone > suggest where I can go to learn how to use VB as a > beginner? > I would like to > get the understanding of the language and how to > > > create > > > software with > it. > > Otis Blue > > Join > Blind-entrepreneurs by subscribing at > > blind-entrepreneurs-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Rules for the > list is simple. > Be respectful to > everyone and no fial language. It's ok to post > > > useful > > > information to > the list that will benefit other users. The list is > mainly > for discussion > of business and owning a business. Everyone is welcome > to > join and learn > about opening a business. Accessible software that's > been > developed by > yourself or something you had made can be sold on the > > > list > > > if > it's going to > benefit other business owners. Other than that, Thanks > for > joining the > Blind-Entrepreneurs group. > > > __________ > View the list's > information and change your settings at > > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's > information and change your settings at > > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > > > > -- > > Thanks, > Ty > > __________ > View the list's information and > change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > > __________ > View the list's information and change > your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your > settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > > > > -- > > Jacques Bosch > > Software Architecture and Development > Independent Contractor > Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726 > E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > -- > > Jacques Bosch > > Software Architecture and Development > Independent Contractor > Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726 > E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > -- Jacques Bosch Software Architecture and Development Independent Contractor Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726 E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx