Re: Getting started learning VB6

I would always promote formal education. Information Technology is one field where you could get professional without formal education, but I think it's a much tougher road and it will probably take you twice as long. Also, should you want to apply for a job where maths or a science background is required you be less appropriate than someone with a simple computer science degree.


I would encourage anyone with an interest in Information Technology and a reasonable aptitude to try and study. It might open up a world to you that you never knew existed. I would also encourage experienced individuals without a formal education to investigate study options. A person with say 10 years programming experience could try do a Masters degree for example. In computer science they might just let you start there if you have a proven experience. Well, no matter what, any worth while university should give an experienced professional "discount" if you will, that will allow him or her to forgo some years of study. If they insist you start with Programming 101 the whole place / department isn't worth their weight in construction rubble.

A degree is however not the be all and end all, it's just a kick start if you like. I really respect people that for one reason or another were not able to study but yet gained enough experience to be competant at what they do. What I don't like is when people without formal education feel threatened by people who did study and then forever poo poo any kind of accademical idea, or anything that is a bit more complicated.

The same goes for formally qualified individuals who can't appreciate simplicity and forever want to complicate things -- a sort of accademical / intellectual snobbery. None of the above will help in the real world.

Since I was so fortunate to have been able to study at one of our country's finest and world class universities, I'll end with a quote you brilliant self-taught professionals might appreciate; it's a quote one professor found, smiling back at him, on the very last page of long exam answer sheet:

"Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach."

Kind regards,
Kerneels


On 2/16/2011 2:30 PM, Jacques Bosch wrote:
I must be an exception to the rule. :)
But I am definitely not advocating that you shouldn't go for a formal education if at all possible. I was only sharing my story. But then I really did work very hard at it and have read very many books and articles over the last 12 years, and had some good input from prior colleagues. However, I know several good professionals that have similar stories here in SA.


Jacques

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:18 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    Hi: There is just no substitute for a quality formal education.
    Ask the folks who run the Human Resources Department at any major
    company or government agency. Perhaps overseas this is diferent. I
    have found the education systems quite diferent here and abroad as
    well as the hiring practices. Here in the United States there is
    no question that you need some University level education if you
    want to get a job with a Major Company where you might be able to
    work for many years and make a living wage for your family.There
    always exceptions but they are very, very rare.
    If you do not live in the U.S. or you think you can make a living
    contracting at world-wide competitive wages such as in India,
    Bangladesh, Romainia   or other Third World Developing countries
    then you can go for it. But, if you want a job with GM, Ford, BA,
    AAA, AA, MERC or any other major company or any Us or State or
    even Local Government agency you will need some level of formal
    education. Again there might be an exception to this, especially
    if you are blind, but it is not likely nor will you find any
    channels for professional advancement in your career.
    Rick USA

        ----- Original Message -----
        *From:* Jacques Bosch <mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx>
        *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2011 6:48 AM
        *Subject:* Re: Getting started learning VB6

        Well, in most cases, probably. But I still maintain, not in all.
        But, hey, that is just me and MHO :)

        On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 1:26 PM, John G <jglists0@xxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:jglists0@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

            i think a clear distinction needs to be drawn between
            programming
            and
            engineering, the latter being a skill or a set of skills
            for which a formal training is essential.


            At 11:12 16/02/2011, you wrote:

                Hi: If you are considering becoming a Professional,
                there is no substitute for a formal education at a
                quality University. If you get a degree from a good
                State  University you will have the logic, cognitive
                and other skills to become a professional programmer.
                That is not something you are likely to do on your
                own. Perhaps someone else has done it but in the field
                they will require at least a degree, 2 or 4 years, and
                they will prefer experience as well. You can get the
                degree from the school and perhaps some experience
                there as well through the Financial Aid Center or by
                volunteering to help or even tutor other students.
                Everything you can get to put on a resume is what you
                want and sitting in your paren'ts basement playing
                with your computer is not likely to give you much to
                put on a resume.
                Rick USA

                ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield,
                Tyler" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
                To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
                Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 4:51 PM
                Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6


                    .net comes with compilers, as far as I know. the
                    user could learn a worth-while language, while
                    still learning to program. You will not find to
                    many job opportunities around that use
                    Libertybasic, if any, as well as the fact that you
                    need to pay for Libertybasic, and it still has an
                    IDE as well as a really whacked syntax you need to
                    learn. I believe (and many schools seem to be
                    thinking along the same lines as I am), that the
                    OP would be fine learning something like that.
                    On 2/15/2011 1:20 PM, RicksPlace wrote:

                        Hi: Mono sounds nice but I would not recommend
                        it for a raw beginner. Actually I would not
                        recommend VB.net to a raw programming
                        beginner. A true beginner needs a really
                        simple platform like that provided by some
                        simple scripting language or a easy to learn
                        platform like Power Basic or Liberty Basic.
                        The concepts of how to write a program by
                        solving problems one step at a time and then
                        coding one statement, one step, at a time will
                        be daunting enough. Trying to learn to
                        navigate the VS IDE on top of that is too much
                        to expect from a totally raw beginner. What is
                        a variable? What types of variables are there?
                        How would you open a door one step at a time?
                        How would you balance your checkbook one step
                        at a time and use algebra symbols in the
                        example solution along with If and End If
                        statements. These are the things that a
                        beginner needs to learn. The syntax of a
                        language are secondary to learning how to
                        perform problem solving using math symbols and
                        then conditional statements and pseudo code
                        and finally using the syntax of an English
                        Like language. Anyway, I recommend that if the
                        beginner does not have any programming
                        experience he try vbscript, Liberty Basic or
                        perhaps Power Basic or something along those
                        lines to learn about using computer code to
                        solve real world problems before tackling a
                        productivity tool like VB.net or Visual
                        Studio. There are e-lists dedicated to these
                        easier languages and when I was learning I
                        found those folks really helpful and willing
                        to do some hand-holding while I learned about
                        things.
                        Perhaps learning to do some simple
                        applications using VbScript would be a good
                        way to learn about variables, loops and
                        conditional statements. Then move up to try
                        something like VB.net.
                        That way he would just write some computer
                        statements in a text editor, run them as a
                        simple script and learn about the basic
                        programming concepts without worrying about
                        the complexity of the Vb.net IDE which can be
                        daunting in and of itself.
                        Rick USA.
                        ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaShiell,
                        Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26"
                        <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx
                        <mailto:jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>>
                        To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                        <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:08 PM
                        Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6


                        Mono differs from dot net in that version 2.0
                        of dot net and mono work
                        together across several platforms.  Later
                        versions of dot net are in the
                        works for support on mono though.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                        <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                        [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                        <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On
                        Behalf Of Littlefield,
                        Tyler
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:53
                        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                        <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                        Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6

                        Mono is not the same as the .net framework.
                        Just get the express edition

                        and you're good. Also: if you are a student,
                        you get vs 2010 free, and
                        Microsoft also gives out vs 2010 ultimate to
                        MSDNAA members.
                        On 2/15/2011 9:31 AM, DaShiell, Jude T. CIV
                        NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 wrote:

                            There may not be enough money to use and
                            learn dot net.  Fortunately,
                            mono can be installed and will run on
                            Windows as well as Linux and the
                            price tag is $0.00.


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From:
                            programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                            [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
                            On Behalf Of DaShiell,
                            Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:28
                            To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                            Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6

                            No, not without knowing your visual
                            status.  If you have memory of
                            having had vision or better yet have a
                            little useable vision your best
                            bet would be to learn the language with
                            windows forms.  If you have no
                            memory of vision, then your best bet would
                            be to learn the language
                            using the console interface, and these are
                            two completely different
                            paths.


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From:
                            programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                            [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
                            On Behalf Of Otis D

                        Blue

                            Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:22
                            To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                            Subject: Getting started learning VB6

                            Hi,

                            Could someone suggest where I can go to
                            learn how to use VB as a
                            beginner?
                            I would like to get the understanding of
                            the language and how to

                        create

                            software with it.

                            Otis Blue

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                    Thanks,
                    Ty

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--
        Jacques Bosch

        Software Architecture and Development
        Independent Contractor
        Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726
        E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx>




--

Jacques Bosch

Software Architecture and Development
Independent Contractor
Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726
E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx>


--
Kerneels Roos
Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos

"There are only two kinds of programming languages in the world; those everyone 
complains about, and those nobody uses."

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