I would always promote formal education. Information Technology is one field where you could get professional without formal education, but I think it's a much tougher road and it will probably take you twice as long. Also, should you want to apply for a job where maths or a science background is required you be less appropriate than someone with a simple computer science degree.
I would encourage anyone with an interest in Information Technology and a reasonable aptitude to try and study. It might open up a world to you that you never knew existed. I would also encourage experienced individuals without a formal education to investigate study options. A person with say 10 years programming experience could try do a Masters degree for example. In computer science they might just let you start there if you have a proven experience. Well, no matter what, any worth while university should give an experienced professional "discount" if you will, that will allow him or her to forgo some years of study. If they insist you start with Programming 101 the whole place / department isn't worth their weight in construction rubble.
A degree is however not the be all and end all, it's just a kick start if you like. I really respect people that for one reason or another were not able to study but yet gained enough experience to be competant at what they do. What I don't like is when people without formal education feel threatened by people who did study and then forever poo poo any kind of accademical idea, or anything that is a bit more complicated.
The same goes for formally qualified individuals who can't appreciate simplicity and forever want to complicate things -- a sort of accademical / intellectual snobbery. None of the above will help in the real world.
Since I was so fortunate to have been able to study at one of our country's finest and world class universities, I'll end with a quote you brilliant self-taught professionals might appreciate; it's a quote one professor found, smiling back at him, on the very last page of long exam answer sheet:
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." Kind regards, Kerneels On 2/16/2011 2:30 PM, Jacques Bosch wrote:
I must be an exception to the rule. :)But I am definitely not advocating that you shouldn't go for a formal education if at all possible. I was only sharing my story. But then I really did work very hard at it and have read very many books and articles over the last 12 years, and had some good input from prior colleagues. However, I know several good professionals that have similar stories here in SA.JacquesOn Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:18 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:Hi: There is just no substitute for a quality formal education. Ask the folks who run the Human Resources Department at any major company or government agency. Perhaps overseas this is diferent. I have found the education systems quite diferent here and abroad as well as the hiring practices. Here in the United States there is no question that you need some University level education if you want to get a job with a Major Company where you might be able to work for many years and make a living wage for your family.There always exceptions but they are very, very rare. If you do not live in the U.S. or you think you can make a living contracting at world-wide competitive wages such as in India, Bangladesh, Romainia or other Third World Developing countries then you can go for it. But, if you want a job with GM, Ford, BA, AAA, AA, MERC or any other major company or any Us or State or even Local Government agency you will need some level of formal education. Again there might be an exception to this, especially if you are blind, but it is not likely nor will you find any channels for professional advancement in your career. Rick USA ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Jacques Bosch <mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx> *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2011 6:48 AM *Subject:* Re: Getting started learning VB6 Well, in most cases, probably. But I still maintain, not in all. But, hey, that is just me and MHO :) On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 1:26 PM, John G <jglists0@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jglists0@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote: i think a clear distinction needs to be drawn between programming and engineering, the latter being a skill or a set of skills for which a formal training is essential. At 11:12 16/02/2011, you wrote: Hi: If you are considering becoming a Professional, there is no substitute for a formal education at a quality University. If you get a degree from a good State University you will have the logic, cognitive and other skills to become a professional programmer. That is not something you are likely to do on your own. Perhaps someone else has done it but in the field they will require at least a degree, 2 or 4 years, and they will prefer experience as well. You can get the degree from the school and perhaps some experience there as well through the Financial Aid Center or by volunteering to help or even tutor other students. Everything you can get to put on a resume is what you want and sitting in your paren'ts basement playing with your computer is not likely to give you much to put on a resume. Rick USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6 .net comes with compilers, as far as I know. the user could learn a worth-while language, while still learning to program. You will not find to many job opportunities around that use Libertybasic, if any, as well as the fact that you need to pay for Libertybasic, and it still has an IDE as well as a really whacked syntax you need to learn. I believe (and many schools seem to be thinking along the same lines as I am), that the OP would be fine learning something like that. On 2/15/2011 1:20 PM, RicksPlace wrote: Hi: Mono sounds nice but I would not recommend it for a raw beginner. Actually I would not recommend VB.net to a raw programming beginner. A true beginner needs a really simple platform like that provided by some simple scripting language or a easy to learn platform like Power Basic or Liberty Basic. The concepts of how to write a program by solving problems one step at a time and then coding one statement, one step, at a time will be daunting enough. Trying to learn to navigate the VS IDE on top of that is too much to expect from a totally raw beginner. What is a variable? What types of variables are there? How would you open a door one step at a time? How would you balance your checkbook one step at a time and use algebra symbols in the example solution along with If and End If statements. These are the things that a beginner needs to learn. The syntax of a language are secondary to learning how to perform problem solving using math symbols and then conditional statements and pseudo code and finally using the syntax of an English Like language. Anyway, I recommend that if the beginner does not have any programming experience he try vbscript, Liberty Basic or perhaps Power Basic or something along those lines to learn about using computer code to solve real world problems before tackling a productivity tool like VB.net or Visual Studio. There are e-lists dedicated to these easier languages and when I was learning I found those folks really helpful and willing to do some hand-holding while I learned about things. Perhaps learning to do some simple applications using VbScript would be a good way to learn about variables, loops and conditional statements. Then move up to try something like VB.net. That way he would just write some computer statements in a text editor, run them as a simple script and learn about the basic programming concepts without worrying about the complexity of the Vb.net IDE which can be daunting in and of itself. Rick USA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26" <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx <mailto:jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:08 PM Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6 Mono differs from dot net in that version 2.0 of dot net and mono work together across several platforms. Later versions of dot net are in the works for support on mono though. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:53 To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6 Mono is not the same as the .net framework. Just get the express edition and you're good. Also: if you are a student, you get vs 2010 free, and Microsoft also gives out vs 2010 ultimate to MSDNAA members. On 2/15/2011 9:31 AM, DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 wrote: There may not be enough money to use and learn dot net. Fortunately, mono can be installed and will run on Windows as well as Linux and the price tag is $0.00. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:28 To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6 No, not without knowing your visual status. If you have memory of having had vision or better yet have a little useable vision your best bet would be to learn the language with windows forms. If you have no memory of vision, then your best bet would be to learn the language using the console interface, and these are two completely different paths. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Otis D Blue Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:22 To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Getting started learning VB6 Hi, Could someone suggest where I can go to learn how to use VB as a beginner? I would like to get the understanding of the language and how to create software with it. Otis Blue Join Blind-entrepreneurs by subscribing at blind-entrepreneurs-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:blind-entrepreneurs-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Rules for the list is simple. Be respectful to everyone and no fial language. It's ok to post useful information to the list that will benefit other users. The list is mainly for discussion of business and owning a business. Everyone is welcome to join and learn about opening a business. Accessible software that's been developed by yourself or something you had made can be sold on the list if it's going to benefit other business owners. Other than that, Thanks for joining the Blind-Entrepreneurs group. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind -- Thanks, Ty __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind--Jacques Bosch Software Architecture and Development Independent Contractor Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726 E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx> -- Jacques Bosch Software Architecture and Development Independent Contractor Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726 E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx>
-- Kerneels Roos Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998 Skype: cornelis.roos "There are only two kinds of programming languages in the world; those everyone complains about, and those nobody uses."
