[PA28235] Re: ethanol in mogas
- From: PilotKris@xxxxxxx
- To: pa28235@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:29:55 EDT
The key phrase is "as long as you're not unsafe".
Only truly unenlightened airport managers would specifically ban any
specific activity.
As I said before, public airport managers can have rules that ALL must
comply (including FBOs) that include safety, training, environmental issues,
storage, etc., that can effectively shut down MoGas dispensing on the field.
Private airports can do whatever they like.
Most people I've observed refueling with MoGas have been in violation of one
or more EPA, AQMD (Air Quality Management District), DOT, or state or local
fire safety regulations (not to mention complete lacking of common sense).
One can't just load the trunk of the Buick full of non-approved gas
containers purchased at Walmart, fill them up at the local HyVee, drive to the
airport, then out on the ramp, pull out the gas and start pouring it in an
airplane...
For example:
The transportation of the fuel falls under the juristrition of the DOT.
The storage of the fuel falls under the juristrition of the EPA and Fire
Marshal.
We aren't talking about 5 gallons of gas to fill your jetski, we are talking
about over 500 pounds of fuel to fill a 235 (432lbs for a 236).
That has safety issues that extend far beyond just yourself and your plane.
That nifty refueling rig you and your buddies constructed out of parts bought
on ebay springs a leak (or worse a leak and a spark) and you've not only a
safety issue capable of causing hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe
millions at an airport), you've also got an HazMat spill that could cost big
bucks
to decontaminate (not to mention the potential for bodily injury or death).
There are rules and laws that need to be followed specifically to assure the
safety of the public any your safety too ('cause way to many people seam to
lack any sort of common sense).
One parting thought, has anyone checked their aviation liability insurance
policy to see if it covers losses resulting from transporting, storing and
dispensing of your own fuel?
In a message dated 7/17/2006 12:32:07 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jjhoneck@xxxxxxxxx writes:
Here is some more info about pumping mogas at your airport:
This from an attorney:
"The right to fuel your own airplane with fuel you brought in from
elsewhere may also be covered by 'common law'. After all, it is your
property and your airplane. So long as you are not unsafe, it is your
right. Such a law would be akin to a company requiring you to fuel up
your car at the company pumps or you couldn't live in the company
housing or work at the company. Or being required to buy a Chevy if you
worked at Cheverolet. Such laws are not legal."
Also:
One of the instructors who teaches for the AOPA CFI renewal
seminars is named Bill Gunn, his full time job is for the
State of Texas and he speaks about this issue at the
seminars. When he gets complaints about such issues, he
tells the local city councils and airports boards that they
must follow the contract and federal laws.
Here is a link with each states' agency.
http://www.nasea.org/state1.htm
Pilot: Bill Gunn - Austin, TX
Aircraft: N252MD, RV-4, Red
Home Airport: Georgetown (GTU)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
From: PilotKris@xxxxxxx
To: pa28235@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [PA28235] Re: ethanol in mogas
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:02:59 +0000
Content-Type: Multipart/alternative;
boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_18485_1153164448_1"
Wow Jay, You're just a wealth of missinformation.
Check with your Lawyer.
Those rules pertain to the granting of Exclusive Rights at airports. They
don't grant any special rights to pump your own gas.
They can have rules that ALL must comply (including FBOs) that include
safety, training, environmental issues, storage, etc., that can effectively
shut
down any MoGas dispensing on the field.
The airport is completely within it's rights to say that fuel can only be
dispensed by an appropriately licesened FBO. But you do have the right to open
your own FBO (if another exists on the field).
In a message dated 7/15/2006 4:26:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jjhoneck@xxxxxxxxx writes:
It took some digging, but here it is:
***********************************************************
_http://www.faa.gov/arp/aal/Sponsor%20Guide/append4e.doc_
(http://www.faa.gov/arp/aal/Sponsor%20Guide/append4e.doc)
f. It will not exercise or grant any right or
privilege which operates to prevent any person, firm, or
corporation operating aircraft on the airport from
performing any services on its own aircraft with its own
employees [including, but not limited to maintenance,
repair, and fueling] that it may choose to perform.
...
23. Exclusive Rights. It will permit no exclusive right
for the use of the airport by any person providing, or
intending to provide, aeronautical services to the public.
For purposes of this paragraph, the providing of the
services at an airport by a single fixed-based operator
shall not be construed as an exclusive right if both of the
following apply:
a.. It would be unreasonably costly, burdensome, or
impractical for more than one fixed-based operator to
provide such services, and
b.. If allowing more than one fixed-based operator to
provide such services would require the reduction of space
leased pursuant to an existing agreement between such single
fixed-based operator and such airport.
It further agrees that it will not, either directly or
indirectly, grant or permit any person, firm, or
corporation, the exclusive right at the airport to conduct
any aeronautical activities, including, but not limited to
charter flights, pilot training, aircraft rental and
sightseeing, aerial photography, crop dusting, aerial
advertising and surveying, air carrier operations, aircraft
sales and services, sale of aviation petroleum products
whether or not conducted in conjunction with other
aeronautical activity, repair and maintenance of airc raft,
sale of aircraft parts, and any other activities which
because of their direct relationship to the operation of
aircraft can be regarded as an aeronautical activity, and
that it will terminate any exclusive right to conduct an
aeronautical activity now existing at such an airport before
the grant of any assistance under Title 49, United States
Code.
***********************************************************
Bottom line: If your airport accepted federal funding, EVER, they can't deny
you the right to fuel your own aircraft.
Now they CAN come up with insurance "requirements" (similar to Lycoming's
"no mogas" 'rule'), but those are easily worked around simply by making sure
that your fueling set up meets state regulations, the way our "Mighty Grape"
fuel truck does.
Our state-compliant fuel truck cost a TOTAL of $2800 (including the
professionally-made fuel tank and pump), and has saved us in excess of $7000.
AND
we get to use it as a pickup truck, so it's a win-win all around.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
-------------- Original message from PilotKris@xxxxxxx: --------------
What Law is that exactly?
In a message dated 7/14/2006 3:15:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jjhoneck@xxxxxxxxx writes:
(Just back from a couple of days camping with the plane (and my son) up on
Madeline Island, out in Lake Superior. If there is anyting else that better
illstrates the best use of a GA airplane, I don't know what it is -- 2.2 hours
from Iowa City to Lake Superior!)
(BTW: 90+ degrees, climb to 10,500 feet, cruise for over 2 hours on that
horrible car gas. Dang, if it didn't run perfectly fine? Amazing! :-)
Anyway, your airport CAN NOT prevent you from bringing car gas to fuel your
own plane. They are violating the law by doing so, and you might point that
out to your airport manager -- with a nice letter from your attorney?
--
Jay
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
_www.AlexisParkInn.com_ (http://www.alexisparkinn.com/)
"Your Aviation Destination"
-------------- Original message from FlyboyEd@xxxxxxx: --------------
In a message dated 7/13/2006 10:05:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mikegot2go@xxxxxxx writes:
Bringing gas to the airport sees like too much work
and my airport does not allow it.
Ed
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