Hi Richard I am not a english gentleman can you explain what this means for a non britisher "His basic point was that although IBM & Microslop nickel & dime you into submission, Oracle just hit you over the head with a baseball bat from the get go" Do you imply that the initial cost of IBM and Microsoft DB sounds attractive and Oracle expensive ? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l