[lit-ideas] Re: On the prospect of World Peace
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:00:19 +0100
Just one more point
LH>Germany didn't feel they had lost WWI and they didn't'
LH> appreciate a government imposed upon them. They wanted
LH> a great leader to save their country from the people who "betrayed it."
1. though Hitler came to power by constitutional means he was
not voted in by a majority of the German people (did he even gain
a plurality of the vote? it's a while since I looked at this).
2. Reasons for voting for the NSDAP varied; see Heberle and
"Who Voted For Nazism" and -- and, the literature on this topic.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:10 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: On the prospect of World Peace
Cough, couch, cough, "a beginning?" What are you talking about? Of course
there has been a beginning, a process, war after war among competing systems,
varieties of systems until in 1990 there remained only two competing major
systems; then in 1991 there was only one, Liberal Democracy. It isn't a matter
of taking it seriously, that is a simple fact. You can't dispute it.
You mentioned China, but China following the lead of Hong Kong is instituting
many of the elements of Liberal Democracy. Can they retain some control over
the government and still reap the benefits of a free economy? They are trying.
They have had to give up one of the basic elements of a Communist system,
i.e., a state-run economy; so they don't meet the criteria of Communism any
longer. Few consider China the threat they were during the Cold War.
I don't understand what you are saying about Brazil. They are a developing
liberal democracy. Remember, Liberal Democracies don't war with Liberal
Democracies.
As to Germany, Democracy was forced upon them after WWI and they resented it.
Even so, it might have caught on had it not been for the depression. Germany
didn't feel they had lost WWI and they didn't' appreciate a government imposed
upon them. They wanted a great leader to save their country from the people
who "betrayed it." They had major unresolved issues after WWI that took WWII
to resolve. Germany never met the criteria of a liberal democracy until after
WWII. No one thinks that they did, by the way. There is no one saying that
Weimer Germany means there was one exception to the dictum that Liberal
Democracies don't war with Liberal Democracies. [I suppose I shouldn't be
quite so absolute. There seem to be people who will say the most absurd and
impossible things; so there may be people saying this as well.]
In the "Last Man" portion of The End of History and the Last Man, Fukuyama
does consider the possibility that there may in the future "End of History"
period arise an individual so charismatic and so imbued with unrelenting thymos
that he will, merely to avoid the boredom of Nietzsche's "Last Man," engage in
some unique action that will start history all over again, but Fukuyama seems
not to have continued to pursue that possibility after finishing his book.
Lawrence
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:39 AM
To: lit-ideas
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: On the prospect of World Peace
I guess if there's an end of history there has to be a beginning. History is
only in the last 15 some years. That explains a lot of things but it also begs
the question of how anyone can take this stuff seriously.
Of course there are challengers. What about China with it's evolving
Confucian Capitalistic Communism? They're predicted to be the superpower by
the year 2030. What about Brazil, even though Brazil's liberal democracy is
second or third after Iraq for hell on earth (my ranking on my personal Hell on
Earth Scale). China is evolving. We don't know how China is going to shake
out. Also, I have personally lived through so many predictions that never
panned out that predicting the end of history through an ascendency of liberal
democracy is down there with leisure suits and hot pants, a political fashion,
meaningless.
Also, Hitler arose out of the Weimar Republic, a democracy. He rose through
the system. There was no coup. He was elected and the country then went
fascist. I also said with the exception of Japan, WWII was fought in and among
liberal democracies. Germany's being a liberal democracy didn't stop it from
becoming fascist.
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