[lit-ideas] Re: Oh, Take me to JesusLand!

> [Original Message]
> From: Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 11/17/2005 2:00:54 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Oh, Take me to JesusLand!
>
> Andy, for a professed history buff, your ignorance of the origin of the 
> state of Israel is appalling.  Try these:
> http://www.mideastweb.org/zionism.htm
> http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/history.htm
> http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html
> http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/popalhome.html
>


I'll go into these sites later, but just looking at the names, it looks
like it's asking the Pope if he's Catholic.  I doubt they'll be too
unbiased.



> I have no doubt that Israel was created out of a sense if profound guilt
for 
> the holocaust which the US blithely ignored along with the rest of the 
> world --


Clearly you didn't go into the site I quoted.  Truman was playing politics.
He's quoted as saying to the effect of Palestinians can't vote.  Somebody
who drops nuclear bombs isn't, in my opinion, going to be consumed with
guilt.  Carter might have been consumed with guilt.  Not Truman.  Rather
than guilt I'd say it was an act of desperation combined with political
pressure.  God, as ever, was useless.  



 most of whom had willingly participated in pogroms for the past 
> 2000 years, ever since Rome expelled the Jews from Judea -- and also
there 
> was the matter of Britain not being up to maintaining its empire
following 
> the war and needing desperately to turn the place over to someone else
and 
> since most of the Jews (who were now blowing up hotels in their devotion
to 
> Zionism) were European like the Brits, well, it just made sense, didn't
it, 
> to turn the place over to those who understood your needs.  


The Brits did their ethinic cleansing in the 11th century I believe.  The
Jews and Arabs share the same roots, same bloodline (whatever that means). 
Nobody remembers that now.  Here I'm paraphrasing the Motherbird site I
posted.  Ancient history isn't extremely interesting to me, so if you want
more, you're on your own.  Actually, all humans share the same little
hominoid ancestor.  That for sure is forgotten.  For that matter, I only
recently woke up that maybe the Jews aren't all innocent with the creation
of Israel.  Until then, I too divided the world into evil lunatics and good
guys.  Now I know it's a lot more complicated.



What does an 
> Arab know about the exigencies of machinery?  Two birds with one stone,
hey? 
> True, Germany should have been given to the Jews as the new Jerusalem. 
That 
> would have been just and fair and retributional.  After all most of
Western 
> Civilization was Jewish in origin, 


That's simplifying it, isn't it?  There were poly gods long before the mono
came along.



and more especially German civilization 
> which at the time was the pinnacle of Western Civilization.  We could
have 
> sent all the Germans to live in France in retribution for the Treaty of 
> Versailles.  But, no, the world chose to pick on the Palestinians who had 
> never persecuted the Jews.  Why pick on them?  Do you really need to ask? 
> Because they were sand niggers and had no power to resist.  But they did, 
> damn them.  Ergo. today.


Shit flows downhill.  Doesn't go away.  Just flows until it eventually
reaches us.


>
> Israel is a fact.  Palestine needs to be.  The World needs to settle this
--  
> equitably -- after all, it was the world who started it -- not the Jews,
not 
> the Palestinians.
>


The world gives a flying fuck until the terrorism reaches them.  Case in
point: the daily bombings in Iraq are ignored; the one bombing in London
got major heartfelt coverage.  Then when it does respond, the world does
the usual world thing by throwing fuel on the fire.  I'm still looking for
an answer as to why people cling so tenaciously to that which causes so
much pain.  Can they not find community without it?  It probably has
something to do with what got Adam and Eve thrown out of the Garden of Eden
in the first place.  Forbidden fruit.  I'd bet anything if Jews weren't
persecuted, the religion would lose most of its appeal to the masses, the
way Christianity has.  Well, if you don't look at the U.S. As it is, the
human psyche needs to divide itself up into scapegoats, the flip side of
which is victim.  Can't have one without the other.  And all need God or
gods.  What a combination.

Anyway, two wrongs don't make a right, but two rights make a U turn.  I
don't have much hope for the world.  


Andy 



> Mike Geary
> Memphis
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:47 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Oh, Take me to JesusLand!
>
>
> >I searched Zionism Origins.  This is the first thing that came up:
> >
> > http://www.cactus48.com/truth
> >
> > They're a Jewish site.  According to them, the U.N. acted under pressure
> > from the U.S., specifically Truman.  It was a corrupt decision.  Not
one 
> > of
> > its finer moments, like the peacekeepers.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Robert Paul <robert.paul@xxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Date: 11/17/2005 3:02:30 AM
> >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Oh, Take me to JesusLand!
> >>
> >>  From a recent exchange:
> >>
> >> >>A.A. Ah, but who asked the Palestinians if they wanted to give up
their
> >> >>homeland?
> >>
> >> >>V.C.No one.  Palestine was a colony of Britain.  The establishment of
> >> >>Israel was done in the UN.
> >>
> >> > ***A.A. Can you supply a source for this?
> >>
> >> Google, he said. Either 'Palestine,' 'Israel,' or 'Zionism' should get
> >> you started.
> >>
> >> Robert Paul
> >> Reed College
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