[lit-ideas] Re: English Pubic Schools
- From: Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 02:05:53 EST
Hi,
Irene, there is a huge difference between someone swatting a kid gently to
make a point (like, remember -- that car coming by is why we learned the "Stop
look and listen" rhyme -- and the people who beat their kids.
I do not like/think people need to spank, either--there are lots of other
strategies to use (and there are numerous books on how to do that--as well as
numerous parenting classes all around the country--but I will state that you
are completely mistaking the incredible horrible child abuse that DOES go on
with the spanking which has been referred to here.
You are doing an incredible disservice to those children who need the help
when you lump into the same category what has happened/is happening to them
to what is being done by the majority of parents who still spank/swat.
In addition, I very much take issue with your continued harping on how there
are no parenting classes. Almost every single school district offers
Parents as Teachers which has a Parent Educator who goes into the homes of
parents
of kids ages 1-3. This is, as well, an international movement which is
extremely successful. No, it is NOT a 'law' that you have a Parent Educator,
but
if you are a (especially) first time parent and you hear about this program
you will almost always sign up for this incredibly helpful service. They also
offer parent support/play groups--which is great for first time (and second
and third) parents.
There are, as well, Parents Universities being offered all around the
nation. I do not know where you live, but if you will contact your school
district,
I imagine that if they don't offer that, that they do offer something...
Another national movement/parent class is called Love and Logic -- and these
are especially useful for the parents who have kids who are older and who have
not responded well to other strategies (whether they be time-outs, removal of
objects dear to their hearts, grounding, etc.)
Many schools also are making it mandatory for kids to take at least a
quarter of what used to be "Home Ec" (often now called FACS--Family and
Consumer
Science) and often they have the kids 'marry' and have a kid. When I worked
at
a branch library--and this was 13 years ago--we used to have teens come in
carrying their doll--they had to treat it like it was a baby and take it
everywhere. And this was 13 (actually more, for that is when I took my current
position).
One set of my friends has recently taken in two foster kids--I think I
mentioned that. When you speak so cavalierly of how ruinous a life is because
of a
swat or spank--you competely disrespect the incredible beatings that these
little ones have endured. The younger one, age 4 or 5, came to them with
multiple bruises/wounds all over his body. The physical shows that there were
broken bones. He came completely unglued at the thought of being
held/cuddled--and kept pleading to be hit. The older one is scared of his own
shadow. To
look at and be around these little ones who have been through a living
hell--it
makes me cross that you would equate the damage/repair that they are going
to have to go through with the sorts of swat that Paul stated that he had or
some of the others.
I agree with you only in that there ARE lots of strategies that ought to be
used and that there are parents who do not use them--including spanking. I
remember, not long ago, having dinner with some friends and we were discussing
the lack of discipline that is 'out there'. One of the people present was a
school nurse and another was a cop. (there were a couple of others of us and
our kids were all at a different table so we were speaking candidly about this
issue--) The cop was bemoaning how often they get called away from all
sorts of what he terms *real* emergencies because of these parents who have no
idea what to do with their kids when they are being rebellious -- and these
parents also refuse to spank. What would a parent do when his/her child
refuses to go to school--and they have done what they could in a non-violent
way?
How would you get that child to go there? (and no--the child just does not
want to do the work--is NOT being bullied or anything like that--) My
friend, the cop, said he looked at the parents who were wringing their hands
and
saying that the school was calling and wanting to know why she had not been in
school and they didn't know what else to do but call 9-1-1. He said he just
look at them and told them that they should just pick her up and put her in
the car. So, he did. Then the mom looked at him and said "But how will we
get her out of the car?" He said "Did you see how I put her in the car?"
They nodded. "Take her out the same way."
another time, he had a call and it was a teenager who had been smacked
across the face by her mother. He had been called away from some other major
case
they were working on -- he's part of the bomb squad here. The girl had
called 9-1-1. He asked the mom if she had done that--the mom said 'yes'--and
he
asked 'why'. The girl had been hitting the mom and calling her horrible
names. What would you have done had you been the mom? You cannot legally kick
her out of your home without going to jail, you know. SO, would you prefer to
be terrorized by your own kid? No, I don't know if the mom had spanked her
in the past--but if she had, it had not 'worked'--but forget what led to it
for a moment. What would you have done in that instance? If you were the
cop?
If you have EVER seen a child really beaten--you would not be talking about
the spanking as you are. There is a huge difference between the beating and
the spanking and the neglect.
You do not have any kids-and, with all your knowledge, you are not out there
teaching classes, volunteering to teach classes at a Parents University,
working as a Parent Educator, taking in foster kids who HAVE been severely
beaten -- or even the kids who had great parents but whose parents have died.
(there is a whole group of them in the foster care network like that, too)
Yes,
many of the kids in the foster care world are messed up--and have major
healing to do.
Start helping them and talk to their social workers about how they were
raised. Then compare them with the everyday kid who is being raised.
Tell me the general area in which you live and I will get for you the names
of the different parenting classes there. Yes, here in MO there are still
pockets of places that are being gradually educated. Yes, it is a process and
it is not done yet. Citizens for Missouri's Children in my state is a
wonderful policy-watching advocate--and they are connected to most of the rest
of
them
If you don't want to help with the parenting classes yourself--then get on
the phone, email, write a letter to your Senator and Congressman--our sweet
dear President has both HeadStart and EvenStart on the chopping blocks yet
again---he has every single year he has been president and it is rather
tiresome
for those who are child advocates to have to constantly be dealing with the
fact that he simply won't 'get it'. The research IS extensive that the cycle
of bad parenting can be changed--and IS being changed. I love EvenStart
because of how it addresses the issues of parenting classes as well as classes
which are called 'parent-and-child-together PACT Time. EvenStart differs from
HeadStart in that those classes are required in order to get the child
care--and the childcare is high quality. (HeadStart's is, too, but they don't
have
quite the same partnerships with community folk as the EvenStart people
do--which includes, Irene, organizations which deal with preventing child
abuse, PAT
(Parents as Teachers), health departments, etc etc. You OUGHT to adore
this program, too, since it IS part of the 'law' that to get the childcare, you
have to attend parenting classes...
Call about this. The National PTAs and PTSAs are hugely involved in working
on keeping the funding for such programs.
Also on the block are the grants for assisting foster care parents. Most of
those kids are the very ones which you seem to think are everywhere--and the
needs are great in order to work with them. Call your representative and
senator--please, do this and then, at least, if you have to be throwing in
those babies with the ones who get swatted in the manner that has been spoken
of
here by people--at least we'll all know that you have done your part to make
the world a better place...
I grant you--I would prefer that there be none of the "Dare to Discipline"
types out there (that's the name of a book) but all would be "How to Discipline
Without Shouting or Spanking" -- which is simply incredibly awesome (and
works). But, I also know/have seen the little ones who have been beaten and
to put them in the same category and state that the issues they are going to
be working through is the same as what someone whose parents spanked them
because they kept running into the street (like it was a game--and I have seen
kids do that--thinking that they just liked/wanted the attention and had no
clue that there was a very real danger--and these were NOT kids who lacked
attention--parents outside watching constantly) Sure, they may grow up not
knowing how to relate to the opposite sex/husband/wife/co-worker--but they are
not
going through what these little ones who my friends have, with two of their
own kids already, taken in...
Please write your Senator--if you care about this issue, at all, Irene. The
budget cuts are real and would eliminate a lot of those parenting classes you
advocate...
Best,
Marlena in Missouri
Terrorize a kid and those little neurons imprint forever. The problem too
>is that people who will terrorize a child most likely aren't going out of
>their way to have a relationship either.
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