[lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me

JK:
>>And if the girl/woman doesn't have a choice?

Choice as to what?  Sexual activity?  Then it's rape or at minimum sexual 
assualt.    If it's with a girl, then it's statutory rape, whether she chooses 
to or not.  Why do you ask such a question?  Is there something in my post that 
suggests I approve of men "having their way" with women?  I don't understand.


Mike Geary
Memphis


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:28 PM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me


  And if the girl/woman doesn't have a choice?

  Julie Krueger

  ========Original Message======== Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close 
to Me 
        Date: 1/28/2007 4:29:06 P.M. Central Standard Time 
        From: atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent on:     


  A.A:
  >>  Sexual pleasure with an older man as opposed to someone her own age?  You 
have to be kidding.<<


  It seems to me that where and with whom a woman seeks her pleasure is her 
business, not yours.  If she prefers older men or younger men or mean men or 
black men or red men or even white men, or rich men or cowboys or gay cowboys, 
then that's her business.  That older men can use their position and influence 
to seduce a younger woman can be dastardly caddish behavior, I'll grant you -- 
but not illegal or necessarily immoral assuming the woman is of legal age.  
Women, like men, can behave in strange ways.  Ask any rock 'n roll star.  Many 
women are drawn like moths to the bright lights of success.  Why else would men 
seek out success?  For men, at least, it's all about sex, Andy.  I hate to tell 
you that, but it's time you knew.  Everything a man does, he does for pussy -- 
well, about ten per cent do it for dick -- Freudian?  No.  More Heffnerian.  
I've yet to find any male behavior that can't ultimately be reduced to the 
desire to fuck.  And I stand four square against Reductionism!  It's an 
extremely complex universe, after all -- except when it comes to male 
motivations.  And I personally find nothing wrong with that.  I find it amusing 
to realize that I'm writing this right now in hopes I'll get laid down the 
road.      
                    
  Omar in his post informed me that the student he was writing about was not, 
like my student, 15 years old, but a college student and that she was not 
inexperienced in things sexual, to which you responded: " Not inexperienced is 
sometimes known as sexual abuse of children."   My question is what the hell 
does that have to do with anything?  If you want to preach against sexual abuse 
of children, then start up an new thread.  I'll support you in that.  I can 
name priests' names. : )   Who I wonder are you accusing of sexual abuse of 
children -- Omar or me or both?  I never touched my student (and today we're 
good, close friends, she teaches theater in Montreal)  and Omar's student 
certainly wasn't a child.  So what was your point exactly?  I understand that 
you're opposed to child sexual abuse.  So are we all.  So are we all.



  >> That's a clear power differential that speaks for itself I think, but, of 
course, not to you.  It must be nice to live in a world where things just 
happen.  Not happen for a reason, but just happen.<<


  I have no idea where this is coming from or how you could draw that 
conclusion from anything I've ever written.  



  >> By psychohistorians, but you don't believe in the unconscious, so why are 
you bothering me? <<


  Which psychohistorians?   Names please.  What do you mean I don't believe in 
the unconscious?  I've told you more than once that I believe first and 
foremost in the unconscious,  or subconscious, which, I assume, is what you 
mean.  We live our subconsciously, consciousness is what we amuse ourselves 
with.  



  A.A.  Someone who does no thinking would be envious, no surprise there.   


  A hit!  A very palpable hit!


  Mike Geary
  Memphis



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andy Amago 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:41 PM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me


  -----Original Message----- 
  From: Mike Geary 
  Sent: Jan 28, 2007 12:15 PM 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me 

   


  As to Andy's comments:

  > Not inexperienced is sometimes known as sexual abuse of children, 

  It's also sometimes (and far more commonly) known as "not inexperienced".  I 
dare say most college age women have some experience with sexual pleasure.  A 
sin, I know.  And get this, not all children are sexually abused.  I know it 
will come as a shock to Andy, who has never raised a child, but in fact most 
children are not sexually abused.   



  A.A.  Sexual pleasure with an older man as opposed to someone her own age?  
You have to be kidding.  That's a clear power differential that speaks for 
itself I think, but, of course, not to you.  It must be nice to live in a world 
where things just happen.  Not happen for a reason, but just happen.   
     


  > Psychohistorically it's suggested that countries have "maturity levels".

  Suggested by whom?  Do you seriously believe that China lacks maturity?


   In any case, what do you mean by "China"?  China has 1.3 billion people in 
it.   Women were treated literally (literally) like nonentities before Mao made 
everyone equal, which worked about as well as emancipating the slaves here.  
There's still much hatred against women in China.  So, yes, the maturity level 
there is not high generally speaking, or you can explain to me why women need 
to be hated.  Iris Chang talked about the things she saw done to women in the 
provinces that can't be repeated on this list.  Women in China's cities are 
divorcing men like crazy and who can blame them?  

  Macho cultures are generally immature.  Men who beat women are immature.  
Women who hit men are immature.  Boys are taught to be men by being beaten (the 
Boy Named Sue), so they will beat those smaller than themselves.  That's called 
macho.  Machismo is a mask.   Mexico is a macho culture, so yes, generally, 
they're less mature than a nonmacho culture.  Likewise Islamic cultures where 
women are obsessed over, "protected", which is to say, kept stuck to the soles 
of men's shoes, are very immature.  Immaturity is accompanied by a lot of 
anger; what was the reaction to the cartoons?  Western cultures are somewhat 
more mature to the extent that there is more equality among sexes, but Western 
cultures did the schoolyard counterpart to the Islam rage by goading it.  We 
here in the U.S. took a huge step backwards with the invasion of Iraq, but 
generally we treat children better, and women are now mostly equal, which means 
we are more mature as a culture, yes.  As we grow up we're taught that we don't 
fight to solve problems (even as we're beaten in the teaching), but how are we 
today solving problems?  By declaring war.  So, the world as a very, very long 
way to go in the maturation process, but at least we've made some progress here 
by recognizing child abuse as bad instead of the normal it's been for most of 
history and still is in much if not most of the world.  




  > Clearly those who need disparities and power differentials in marriages are 
not at the high end of maturity.


  Clearly?  I envy Andy the clarity of his thinking.


  A.A.  Someone who does no thinking would be envious, no surprise there.   


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