[lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me

And if the girl/woman doesn't have a choice?
 
Julie Krueger

========Original  Message========     Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So 
Close to Me  Date: 1/28/2007 4:29:06 P.M. Central Standard Time  From: 
_atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   To: 
_lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   Sent on:    
A.A:
>>  Sexual pleasure  with an older man as opposed to someone her own age?  
You have to be  kidding.<<


It seems to me that where and with whom a woman seeks her pleasure is her  
business, not yours.  If she prefers older men or younger men or mean men  or 
black men or red men or even white men, or rich men or cowboys or  gay cowboys, 
then that's her business.  That older men can use their  position and 
influence to seduce a younger woman can be dastardly caddish  behavior, I'll 
grant you 
-- but not illegal or necessarily immoral assuming the  woman is of legal 
age.  Women, like men, can behave  in strange ways.  Ask any rock 'n roll star. 
 
Many women are  drawn like moths to the bright lights of success.  Why else 
would men  seek out success?  For men, at least, it's all about sex, Andy.  I  
hate to tell you that, but it's time you knew.  Everything a man does, he  does 
for pussy -- well, about ten per cent do it for dick --  Freudian?  No.  More 
Heffnerian.  I've yet to find any male  behavior that can't ultimately be 
reduced to the desire to fuck.  And  I stand four square against Reductionism!  
It's an extremely complex  universe, after all -- except when it comes to male 
motivations.  And  I personally find nothing wrong with that.  I find it 
amusing to realize  that I'm writing this right now in hopes I'll get laid down 
the 
 road.      

Omar  in his post informed me that the student he was writing about was not, 
like my  student, 15 years old, but a college student and that she was not  
inexperienced in things sexual, to which you responded: " Not inexperienced is  
sometimes known as sexual abuse of children."   My question is  what the hell 
does that have to do with anything?  If you want  to preach against sexual 
abuse of children, then start up an new  thread.  I'll support you in that.  I 
can name  priests' names. : )   Who I wonder are you accusing of  sexual abuse 
of children -- Omar or me or both?  I never touched my  student (and today 
we're good, close friends, she teaches theater in  Montreal)  and Omar's 
student 
certainly wasn't a child.  So what  was your point exactly?  I understand that 
you're opposed to child sexual  abuse.  So are we all.  So are we  all.
 
 

>> That's a clear power differential that speaks for  itself I think, but, of 
course, not to you.  It must be nice to live in a  world where things just 
happen.  Not happen for a reason, but just  happen.<<
 
 
I have no idea where this is coming from or how you could draw  that 
conclusion from anything I've ever written.  
 
 
 
>> By psychohistorians, but you don't believe in the  unconscious, so why are 
you bothering me? <<
 
 
Which psychohistorians?   Names please.  What  do you mean I don't believe in 
the unconscious?  I've told you more than  once that I believe first and 
foremost in the unconscious,  or  subconscious, which, I assume, is what you 
mean. 
 We live our  subconsciously, consciousness is what we amuse ourselves with.  
 
 
 
A.A.  Someone who does no thinking would be envious, no  surprise there.   


A hit!  A very palpable hit!
 
 
Mike Geary
Memphis
 
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andy Amago 
To:  lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject:  [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me


-----Original Message-----  
From: Mike Geary 
Sent: Jan 28, 2007 12:15 PM 
To:  lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Don't Stand So Close to Me  

 


As to Andy's comments:

> Not inexperienced is  sometimes known as sexual abuse of children, 

It's also sometimes (and  far more commonly) known as "not inexperienced".  I 
dare say most college  age women have some experience with sexual pleasure.  
A sin, I know.   And get this, not all children are sexually abused.  I know 
it will come as  a shock to Andy, who has never raised a child, but in fact 
most children are not  sexually abused.   



A.A.  Sexual pleasure with an  older man as opposed to someone her own age?  
You have to be kidding.   That's a clear power differential that speaks for 
itself I think, but, of  course, not to you.  It must be nice to live in a 
world 
where things just  happen.  Not happen for a reason, but just happen.    



> Psychohistorically it's suggested that  countries have "maturity levels".

Suggested by whom?  Do you  seriously believe that China lacks maturity?


In any case, what  do you mean by "China"?  China has 1.3 billion people in 
it.    Women were treated literally (literally) like nonentities before Mao 
made  everyone equal, which worked about as well as emancipating the slaves  
here.  There's still much hatred against women in China.  So, yes, the  
maturity 
level there is not high generally speaking, or you can explain to me  why women 
need to be hated.  Iris Chang talked about the things she saw  done to women 
in the provinces that can't be repeated on this list.  Women  in China's 
cities are divorcing men like crazy and who can blame them?   

Macho cultures are generally immature.  Men who beat women are  immature.  
Women who hit men are immature.  Boys are taught to be men  by being beaten 
(the 
Boy Named Sue), so they will beat those smaller than  themselves.  That's 
called macho.  Machismo is a mask.    Mexico is a macho culture, so yes, 
generally, they're less mature than a  nonmacho culture.  Likewise Islamic 
cultures 
where women are obsessed over,  "protected", which is to say, kept stuck to the 
soles of men's shoes, are very  immature.  Immaturity is accompanied by a lot 
of anger; what was the  reaction to the cartoons?  Western cultures are 
somewhat more mature to the  extent that there is more equality among sexes, 
but 
Western cultures did the  schoolyard counterpart to the Islam rage by goading 
it. 
 We here in the  U.S. took a huge step backwards with the invasion of Iraq, 
but generally we  treat children better, and women are now mostly equal, which 
means we are more  mature as a culture, yes.  As we grow up we're taught that 
we don't fight  to solve problems (even as we're beaten in the teaching), but 
how are we today  solving problems?  By declaring war.  So, the world as a 
very, very  long way to go in the maturation process, but at least we've made 
some progress  here by recognizing child abuse as bad instead of the normal 
it's 
been for most  of history and still is in much if not most of the world.   




> Clearly those who need disparities and power  differentials in marriages 
are not at the high end of  maturity.


Clearly?  I envy Andy the clarity of his  thinking.


A.A.  Someone who does no thinking would be envious,  no surprise there.    


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