RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
- From: Jim Harrison <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 22:38:43 -0700
Hi Tom,
Good thing I'm not strange, huh?
:-)
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 00:24:41 -0500
"Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
http://www.ISAserver.org
Hi Jim,
If I had a real job, I could be more anal retentive about it, but I
depend a lot on the kindness of strangers :)
Tom
Thomas W Shinder
www.isaserver.org/shinder
ISA 2004 Beta - Get it now!
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 12:20 AM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
http://www.ISAserver.org
Hi Tom,
True, very true.
As with security, you can't have all or nothing; there's a balance to be
struck.
In my case, I'm not looking for unsolicited offers, so I can afford to
be a bit more anal (rectal, colonial?) about my spam filtering.
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:23:43 -0500
"Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
http://www.ISAserver.org
Hi Anthony,
Like I said to Jim, you got me there. But are the bandwidth savings for
the company more than what a lost deal might cost them? You'll never
know, because the message was stopped before the user could evaluate it.
Its all a balance, like Ray said earlier today.
Tom
Thomas W Shinder
www.isaserver.org/shinder
ISA 2004 Beta - Get it now!
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/beta/default.asp
ISA Server and Beyond: http://tinyurl.com/1jq1
Configuring ISA Server: http://tinyurl.com/1llp
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Michaud [mailto:anthonym@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 8:29 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
http://www.ISAserver.org
Hi Tom,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:48
> To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
> But you do have false postives with RBLs. You block an entire
> server or
> domain without performing due diligence. Critical mail may come from
> that server and you're not even aware that you missed it
> because it was
> blocked "en bloc".
If its *that* important, the sender will, upon receipt of a bounce, use
the telephone. I don't like making blanket statements, but I'm
confident that we're not going to get some critical email from someone
who isn't on our white lists.
> Also, the RBL does nothing to reduce Internet bandwidth usage, because
> the mail still arrives on your public link.
bzzt. Check out ORF by vamsoft. ORF blocks the email delivery at
handshake.
Anthony.
> Thanks!
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Michaud [mailto:anthonym@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:35 PM
> To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> Bayesian filtering is still to "iffy" for my liking. There
> is a greater
> risk of "false positives" and the dynamic's of spam change frequently
> enough to avoid filtering (for periods of time).
>
> Finding a few good quality ORDB's has meant that I'm blocking ~35% of
> all email's - spam still gets through, but its significantly lower and
> there is no chance of a 'false positive'. To compensate for known
> clients having a listing on one or more of the ORDB's, we
> white list all
> known correspondence with a dump from the CRM product we use
> (automating
> this is a 'to-do').
>
> As we initiate new business, we send the first email, its in our
> database (or should be if staff follow correct procedure) so its white
> listed. Nothing important is blocked.
>
> Show me a Bayesian filter with a proven track record of no false
> positives and I may think about looking at it - but I probably won't -
> the system I'm using ain't broke, so I'm not going to fix it :)
>
> Anthony.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:16
> > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
> >
> >
> > http://www.ISAserver.org
> >
> > Hi Anthony,
> >
> > How does your use of an RBL on your network reduce overall
> bandwidth
> > utilization on the Internet link? How are they superior to a good
> > Bayesian filter?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Tom
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Anthony Michaud [mailto:anthonym@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:11 PM
> > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
> >
> > http://www.ISAserver.org
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2004 11:22
> > > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > > Subject: [isalist] OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs
> >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ Clip from Fred Langa Newsletter
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kennedy
> > > Space Center Blacklisted I won't bore you with the
> rationale of why
> > > broad-brush "blacklist" tools are bogus--- I've covered the
> > inherent
> > > flaws in this approach many times before. (
> > http://langa.com/u/4v.htm
> > > ) But I admit to a perverse pleasure in emails like this,
> > which show
> > > just how utterly stupid SPEWS, MAPS, SpamCop and the rest
> > really are:
> > >
> > > Three times this year all of the e-mail from Kennedy Space
> > Center was
> > > blocked by our county's largest broadband ISP (RoadRunner).
> > They have
> > > done so because of a large quantity of mail coming from a
> > single user
> >
> > > or because one or more of the following third party spam
> >
> > *snippage*
> >
> > I love these rants. Who I accept email from is *my*
> choice, based on
> > the lattitude that I have been given in my role. If your
> company has
> > sent unsolicited emails, I don't want 'em. If your ISP has
> done it,
> > or a customer of the ISP's - the ISP needs to be contacted
> by you and
> > the ISP fix it. I use dynamic RBL's, that have a quick
> turnaround on
> > removal of blocks, so when your mail system is secure
> again, then you
> > can talk to me. Don't fix it, then get on the phone or fax.
> >
> > Its *my* mailserver. Its *my* bandwidth. Its not free and the
> > spammers / virus writers aren't paying for the bandwidth they waste.
> >
> > I just love those that think they have a god given right to
> send email
>
> > - which is not the case.
> >
> > Anthony.
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