So you're not interested in those pills then Jim :P Greg Mulholland Stelatel Communications Unit 3 641-643 Centre Rd Bentleigh East, VIC Phone: (03) 9576-5699 Fax: (03) 9576-5899 gregstelatel@xxxxxxxxxxx www.stelatel.com -----Original Message----- From: Jim Harrison [mailto:jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 3:20 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs http://www.ISAserver.org Hi Tom, True, very true. As with security, you can't have all or nothing; there's a balance to be struck. In my case, I'm not looking for unsolicited offers, so I can afford to be a bit more anal (rectal, colonial?) about my spam filtering. Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 21:23:43 -0500 "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: http://www.ISAserver.org Hi Anthony, Like I said to Jim, you got me there. But are the bandwidth savings for the company more than what a lost deal might cost them? You'll never know, because the message was stopped before the user could evaluate it. Its all a balance, like Ray said earlier today. Tom Thomas W Shinder www.isaserver.org/shinder ISA 2004 Beta - Get it now! http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/beta/default.asp ISA Server and Beyond: http://tinyurl.com/1jq1 Configuring ISA Server: http://tinyurl.com/1llp -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Michaud [mailto:anthonym@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 8:29 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs http://www.ISAserver.org Hi Tom, > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:48 > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] > Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs > But you do have false postives with RBLs. You block an entire > server or > domain without performing due diligence. Critical mail may come from > that server and you're not even aware that you missed it > because it was > blocked "en bloc". If its *that* important, the sender will, upon receipt of a bounce, use the telephone. I don't like making blanket statements, but I'm confident that we're not going to get some critical email from someone who isn't on our white lists. > Also, the RBL does nothing to reduce Internet bandwidth usage, because > the mail still arrives on your public link. bzzt. Check out ORF by vamsoft. ORF blocks the email delivery at handshake. Anthony. > Thanks! > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Michaud [mailto:anthonym@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:35 PM > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] > Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs > > http://www.ISAserver.org > > Bayesian filtering is still to "iffy" for my liking. There > is a greater > risk of "false positives" and the dynamic's of spam change frequently > enough to avoid filtering (for periods of time). > > Finding a few good quality ORDB's has meant that I'm blocking ~35% of > all email's - spam still gets through, but its significantly lower and > there is no chance of a 'false positive'. To compensate for known > clients having a listing on one or more of the ORDB's, we > white list all > known correspondence with a dump from the CRM product we use > (automating > this is a 'to-do'). > > As we initiate new business, we send the first email, its in our > database (or should be if staff follow correct procedure) so its white > listed. Nothing important is blocked. > > Show me a Bayesian filter with a proven track record of no false > positives and I may think about looking at it - but I probably won't - > the system I'm using ain't broke, so I'm not going to fix it :) > > Anthony. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx] > > Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:16 > > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] > > Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs > > > > > > http://www.ISAserver.org > > > > Hi Anthony, > > > > How does your use of an RBL on your network reduce overall > bandwidth > > utilization on the Internet link? How are they superior to a good > > Bayesian filter? > > > > Thanks! > > Tom > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anthony Michaud [mailto:anthonym@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:11 PM > > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] > > Subject: [isalist] RE: OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs > > > > http://www.ISAserver.org > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx] > > > Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2004 11:22 > > > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] > > > Subject: [isalist] OT: Why Friends Don't Let Friends use RBLs > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ Clip from Fred Langa Newsletter > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kennedy > > > Space Center Blacklisted I won't bore you with the > rationale of why > > > broad-brush "blacklist" tools are bogus--- I've covered the > > inherent > > > flaws in this approach many times before. ( > > http://langa.com/u/4v.htm > > > ) But I admit to a perverse pleasure in emails like this, > > which show > > > just how utterly stupid SPEWS, MAPS, SpamCop and the rest > > really are: > > > > > > Three times this year all of the e-mail from Kennedy Space > > Center was > > > blocked by our county's largest broadband ISP (RoadRunner). > > They have > > > done so because of a large quantity of mail coming from a > > single user > > > > > or because one or more of the following third party spam > > > > *snippage* > > > > I love these rants. Who I accept email from is *my* > choice, based on > > the lattitude that I have been given in my role. If your > company has > > sent unsolicited emails, I don't want 'em. If your ISP has > done it, > > or a customer of the ISP's - the ISP needs to be contacted > by you and > > the ISP fix it. I use dynamic RBL's, that have a quick > turnaround on > > removal of blocks, so when your mail system is secure > again, then you > > can talk to me. Don't fix it, then get on the phone or fax. > > > > Its *my* mailserver. Its *my* bandwidth. Its not free and the > > spammers / virus writers aren't paying for the bandwidth they waste. > > > > I just love those that think they have a god given right to > send email > > > - which is not the case. > > > > Anthony. ------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Other Internet Software Marketing Sites: World of Windows Networking: http://www.windowsnetworking.com Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 Exchange Server Resource Site: http://www.msexchange.org Windows Security Resource Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library: http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions: http://www.ntfaxfaq.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Other Internet Software Marketing Sites: World of Windows Networking: http://www.windowsnetworking.com Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 Exchange Server Resource Site: http://www.msexchange.org Windows Security Resource Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library: http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions: http://www.ntfaxfaq.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Other Internet Software Marketing Sites: World of Windows Networking: http://www.windowsnetworking.com Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 Exchange Server Resource Site: http://www.msexchange.org Windows Security Resource Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library: http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions: http://www.ntfaxfaq.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion List as: gregstelatel@xxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe visit http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist