[geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs

that principle only holds true at certain scales...and i have already stated 
scale is the problem .....????????  Paul and I were not into those scales..  We 
were in the scale range where in practical terms as you say "the principle 
holds true.."   

An accelerometer specifically  the spring type, but I add any type no matter 
how sensitive,  will not show any reading during any accelerating state caused 
by gravitational forces, which for example the geostationary satellite is 
doing..YES IT WILL, IT DOES AND THEY USE IT in space!?

Yes they use it and No it won't measure accelerating state caused by 
gravitational forces... They use it to measure acceleration due to their own 
local powered movements obital corrections etc. 

If you have a super duper laser accelerometer that would work in this 
situation, Send it to Nasa   It'd have to be worth millions. This gets to the 
whole motion & acceleration issues.....Any Sagnag gyro will show any motion 
free fall or now wrt earth/bakground stars.......and thanks but NASA already 
has and usese it so dose DOD??? ..there is a difference between what the text 
books espouse and what works in reality, have you been keeping up the post this 
is a demonstratable fact.....!?

Hang on now..  Paul, and  Regner,  have specifically excluded a gyro, 
acknowledging that it will detect curved orbital motion, and you know it, or 
you have wittlessly not read the posts. The flywheel action is not a 
gravitational effect. ..  It can detect curved motion, which is acceleration.
The gyro will not detect linear acceleration. It cannot be truely called an 
accelerometer. 

Philip. 
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Allen Daves 
  To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:02 AM
  Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs


  Blue...


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  To: geocentrism list <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 5:50:53 PM
  Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs

   
  We are not discussing a ball and a feather we are discusing how gravity works 
not just on the small scale but large scale with planets and suns ect.....All 
bodies and a universe all interacting at once with eachother......Allen

  No we are not!  You might want to.. Paul merely stated a working principle 
that works in real experiments, proven yes, and related to the feather drop 
experiment..  Again that principle only holds true at certain scales...and i 
have already stated scale is the problem .....????????

  An accelerometer specifically  the spring type, but I add any type no matter 
how sensitive,  will not show any reading during any accelerating state caused 
by gravitational forces, which for example the geostationary satellite is 
doing..YES IT WILL, IT DOES AND THEY USE IT in space!?  or the Space station. 
Those guys have no instruementation available to them, laser or otherwise that 
would tell them what their acceleration was or even if they were accelerating.  

  The sun the moon or the stars passing would perhaps change the rate/direction 
of acceleration, but such changes not register on any accelerometer of even be 
felt by their inner ear..   the most sensitive accelerometer I have. Even if 
they looked out, their eyes would deceive what their brain told them as they 
gazed upon the spinning ball called earth, and a sun or moon speeding by.

  If you have a super duper laser accelerometer that would work in this 
situation, Send it to Nasa   It'd have to be worth millions. This gets to the 
whole motion & acceleration issues.....Any Sagnag gyro will show any motion 
free fall or now wrt earth/bakground stars.......and thanks but NASA already 
has and usese it so dose DOD??? ..there is a difference between what the text 
books espouse and what works in reality, have you been keeping up the post this 
is a demonstratable fact.....!?

  Philip. 

  I drop my worthless bit of comment into your questions below
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Allen Daves 
    To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:22 AM
    Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs


    Phil, 



    1. How does a ball and feather drop prove gravitational theory and 
demonstrate that with planitary mechanics ....???  the discussion was not to 
prove any theory. It was confirming Pauls assertion concerning the working of  
an accelerometer. The reality of what happens, has happened is happening and 
which you deny. The above drop experiment proves that gravity acceleration , 
what ever its source, or however it operates , acts on every single molecule 
equally without preference. regardless of its mass, and thus cannot be detected 
by any mass object within itself.  The hit at the bottom of course is a 
different equation altogether. Likewise any drive source using internal energy 
on part of the object/s. 

     If the above experiment were long enough a drop, then any large mass 
placed close to the tube say half way, the deviation on the feather and the 
lead ball would be exactly equal. and undetectable by any onboard instruements. 
But I believe laboratory positioned observers can read the effects. 

    2.Even MS openly admits the inverse square law breaks down and is not 
absolute....??? As above this does not even come into the discussion re 
accelerometers function. I'd say, So what!  Where I placed the single planet 
and satellite, for your discussion, it was so far away that the gravity of the 
universal mass , inverse square law value not withstanding or zero value , 
meaning both zero, close enough, you did not want to play..  Because that was a 
fair experiment, where you could not bring in "diabolical" distractions. 

    3. The fact that it breaks down so much so that they have to create 90% of 
their universal modle built with "dark matter" and "dark energy" that is only 
knowable by vertue of the fact that their model would not work without it....!? 
 Well I doubt Paul or myself intended taking any accelerometer that far 
out..This is just another mental distraction where you cant keep your mind on 
the main point of discussion as I showed above.  You are guilty of *diabolical* 
obfuscation. All three,

          1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.  
          2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous 
information.  
          3. to darken.  


    4. We are not discussing a ball and a feather we are discusing how gravity 
works not just on the small scale but large scale with planets and suns 
ect.....All bodies and a universe all interacting at once with 
eachother......This should have been at the top of your list ...  No we were 
not being large scale..  Paul merely stated that the spring loaded 
accelerometer cannot detect acceleration from inside the body acted on by a 
gravitational field in orbit around the sun or earth. This is proven in 
practise at least around the earth. The ball and feather experiment 
demonstrates it on the ground, and should give you a clue as to how and why 
without any large scale galaxies coming into it.. 

    I would remind you that this inverse square law was discussed by Neville 
and others some time ago, and even if the law failed with regard to the earth 
way out near Pluto, the figure would be so negligible as to be non existent. 
Matter out there would come under the influence of Pluto or what ever. .  
However I think the astronomers of long past and the most recent, have shown 
that this inverse law of gravity has maintained great accuracy as regards the 
deviations of the planets and their moons for our solar system in general, and 
our own moon in particular.  

    Allen you are not doing a very good service to the geocentric cause.by 
ignoring  the difference between theoretical concepts, and real material 
experiments.  Keep your subject threads separate please..  I will try to do 
likewise..  

    Philip. .  

    His head, like a smokejack, the funnel unswept, and the ideas whirling 
round and round about in it, all obfuscated and darkened over with fuliginous 
matter. --Sterne. 


    Clouds of passion which might obfuscate the intellects of meaner females. 
--Sir. W. Scott. 

    ----- Original Message ----
    From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2008 2:31:45 PM
    Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs

     
    Allen!  My experiment was not a thought experiment game but a real 
mechanical question..  so I'll try enother highschool one..  

    If I drop a feather and a lead ball ten times the weight from a height, 
down an inclosed vacuum tube, at exactly the same time, which will hit the 
bottom first?  

    Philip. 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Paul Deema 
      To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:35 AM
      Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs


      Philip M (and any others interested).
      It might have been interesting but in the face of such sophistry any 
further effort would just be wasted effort.
      Paul D



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Sent: Friday, 4 April, 2008 3:24:26 PM
      Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs


      Guys we are not descusing nor can we experinace/demonstrate a universe 
with one sun and one earth in it!?.....You simply cannot creat in your heads 
some imaginary universe with only two bodies in it and extropolate the physics 
of the curent real universe neither did Newton or Einstine base their 
conclusions on such absurdities....The conclusions of their theories and even 
in their thought experiments was based on all the bodies interacting with each 
other................without absolut knowledge of what gravity is in the first 
place your disscusion realy will be nothing more then a "game" not any 
meaningfull discussion on inertia or detectable accelerations......... MS does 
not claim the physics of the universe to work on a two body system!.......Thus, 
it is not even remotley posible to mimic the real universe except in the  
imaginations of your heads and even at that assuming  gravity is what you think 
it is in the first place!?  I not interested in pursuing that kind of "game". 
Start with what you have not with what you do not have..We have observations 
that show not imagine that what you suppose is not true from the get go!..Why 
persue a conclusion we already know to be false?!.....If it were true that you 
could not detect accelertions in a free fall around in a grav feild then simply 
the tides cold not exist as per MS.....Guys I'm not interested in pursuing your 
thought experiments that are based on false assumptions.  You dont see your 
whole problem is you are so indocrinated with your idea of gravity  that is 
actualy not even correct in MS but you insist on it so much that you refuse to 
see that your "games" are not based on any reality they are based on your lack 
of understanding of MS......???




      ----- Original Message ----
      From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 12:05:38 AM
      Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs

       
      Yeah...Wwork from a basic setup .. Nothing in the universe but a 
stationary sun and a planet orbiting around it at a great speed..  There is no 
need to bring in the butterfly principle that fluttering wings in Adelaide 
makes it rain in New York. 

      Even Allen must accept, geocentrism or not, that we can lay down ground 
rules for our lab in space experiment..  Another sun another planet all alone 
in the void. 

      OK  now I am all the way with PD that no accelerometer on that planet no 
matter how sensitive,  will detect the acceleration of that planet as it 
circles that sun at a constant velocity in a perfectly circular orbit..  .  

      That will do for starters so as not to complicate the maths with 
elliptical variables and barycentres..  

      After that when Allen finds that we is true, we can bring in other 
variables due to elliptical orbits where the velocity varies, so that we will 
have two different accelerations, created by the same force.. and why again the 
accelerometer shows nothing..  

      Of course it doesn't on my kitchen table, but Allen cops out on that one 
because the table aint moving. Its geocentrism see.. But the guys in or on the 
space station  will not feel anything on their table either..    Let the game 
begin// 

      Philip.     


      ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Paul Deema 
        To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:37 PM
        Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs


        Allen D
        What I've always wanted to discuss but from a seeming auspicious 
beginning starting at (Item 2, second paragraph, beginning "However, I will go 
this far.....").
        "New game" in this context means "Put aside all previous baggage and 
make a fresh start concentrating exclusively on the accelerometer, the 
elliptical orbit and the Sun".
        At the outset, I acknowledge that every atom in the universe influences 
every other atom in the universe but take the view that it is not necessary to 
go to this level in order to gain an understanding of the basic mechanisms 
involved.
        Paul D




        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Sent: Thursday, 3 April, 2008 7:59:37 PM
        Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs




        "New game. Are you interested in detachedly discussing accelerometers?"

        What would you like to discuss?  





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