[geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 12:02:42 +1000
that principle only holds true at certain scales...and i have already stated
scale is the problem .....???????? Paul and I were not into those scales.. We
were in the scale range where in practical terms as you say "the principle
holds true.."
An accelerometer specifically the spring type, but I add any type no matter
how sensitive, will not show any reading during any accelerating state caused
by gravitational forces, which for example the geostationary satellite is
doing..YES IT WILL, IT DOES AND THEY USE IT in space!?
Yes they use it and No it won't measure accelerating state caused by
gravitational forces... They use it to measure acceleration due to their own
local powered movements obital corrections etc.
If you have a super duper laser accelerometer that would work in this
situation, Send it to Nasa It'd have to be worth millions. This gets to the
whole motion & acceleration issues.....Any Sagnag gyro will show any motion
free fall or now wrt earth/bakground stars.......and thanks but NASA already
has and usese it so dose DOD??? ..there is a difference between what the text
books espouse and what works in reality, have you been keeping up the post this
is a demonstratable fact.....!?
Hang on now.. Paul, and Regner, have specifically excluded a gyro,
acknowledging that it will detect curved orbital motion, and you know it, or
you have wittlessly not read the posts. The flywheel action is not a
gravitational effect. .. It can detect curved motion, which is acceleration.
The gyro will not detect linear acceleration. It cannot be truely called an
accelerometer.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Blue...
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism list <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 5:50:53 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
We are not discussing a ball and a feather we are discusing how gravity works
not just on the small scale but large scale with planets and suns ect.....All
bodies and a universe all interacting at once with eachother......Allen
No we are not! You might want to.. Paul merely stated a working principle
that works in real experiments, proven yes, and related to the feather drop
experiment.. Again that principle only holds true at certain scales...and i
have already stated scale is the problem .....????????
An accelerometer specifically the spring type, but I add any type no matter
how sensitive, will not show any reading during any accelerating state caused
by gravitational forces, which for example the geostationary satellite is
doing..YES IT WILL, IT DOES AND THEY USE IT in space!? or the Space station.
Those guys have no instruementation available to them, laser or otherwise that
would tell them what their acceleration was or even if they were accelerating.
The sun the moon or the stars passing would perhaps change the rate/direction
of acceleration, but such changes not register on any accelerometer of even be
felt by their inner ear.. the most sensitive accelerometer I have. Even if
they looked out, their eyes would deceive what their brain told them as they
gazed upon the spinning ball called earth, and a sun or moon speeding by.
If you have a super duper laser accelerometer that would work in this
situation, Send it to Nasa It'd have to be worth millions. This gets to the
whole motion & acceleration issues.....Any Sagnag gyro will show any motion
free fall or now wrt earth/bakground stars.......and thanks but NASA already
has and usese it so dose DOD??? ..there is a difference between what the text
books espouse and what works in reality, have you been keeping up the post this
is a demonstratable fact.....!?
Philip.
I drop my worthless bit of comment into your questions below
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 2:22 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Phil,
1. How does a ball and feather drop prove gravitational theory and
demonstrate that with planitary mechanics ....??? the discussion was not to
prove any theory. It was confirming Pauls assertion concerning the working of
an accelerometer. The reality of what happens, has happened is happening and
which you deny. The above drop experiment proves that gravity acceleration ,
what ever its source, or however it operates , acts on every single molecule
equally without preference. regardless of its mass, and thus cannot be detected
by any mass object within itself. The hit at the bottom of course is a
different equation altogether. Likewise any drive source using internal energy
on part of the object/s.
If the above experiment were long enough a drop, then any large mass
placed close to the tube say half way, the deviation on the feather and the
lead ball would be exactly equal. and undetectable by any onboard instruements.
But I believe laboratory positioned observers can read the effects.
2.Even MS openly admits the inverse square law breaks down and is not
absolute....??? As above this does not even come into the discussion re
accelerometers function. I'd say, So what! Where I placed the single planet
and satellite, for your discussion, it was so far away that the gravity of the
universal mass , inverse square law value not withstanding or zero value ,
meaning both zero, close enough, you did not want to play.. Because that was a
fair experiment, where you could not bring in "diabolical" distractions.
3. The fact that it breaks down so much so that they have to create 90% of
their universal modle built with "dark matter" and "dark energy" that is only
knowable by vertue of the fact that their model would not work without it....!?
Well I doubt Paul or myself intended taking any accelerometer that far
out..This is just another mental distraction where you cant keep your mind on
the main point of discussion as I showed above. You are guilty of *diabolical*
obfuscation. All three,
1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous
information.
3. to darken.
4. We are not discussing a ball and a feather we are discusing how gravity
works not just on the small scale but large scale with planets and suns
ect.....All bodies and a universe all interacting at once with
eachother......This should have been at the top of your list ... No we were
not being large scale.. Paul merely stated that the spring loaded
accelerometer cannot detect acceleration from inside the body acted on by a
gravitational field in orbit around the sun or earth. This is proven in
practise at least around the earth. The ball and feather experiment
demonstrates it on the ground, and should give you a clue as to how and why
without any large scale galaxies coming into it..
I would remind you that this inverse square law was discussed by Neville
and others some time ago, and even if the law failed with regard to the earth
way out near Pluto, the figure would be so negligible as to be non existent.
Matter out there would come under the influence of Pluto or what ever. .
However I think the astronomers of long past and the most recent, have shown
that this inverse law of gravity has maintained great accuracy as regards the
deviations of the planets and their moons for our solar system in general, and
our own moon in particular.
Allen you are not doing a very good service to the geocentric cause.by
ignoring the difference between theoretical concepts, and real material
experiments. Keep your subject threads separate please.. I will try to do
likewise..
Philip. .
His head, like a smokejack, the funnel unswept, and the ideas whirling
round and round about in it, all obfuscated and darkened over with fuliginous
matter. --Sterne.
Clouds of passion which might obfuscate the intellects of meaner females.
--Sir. W. Scott.
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2008 2:31:45 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Allen! My experiment was not a thought experiment game but a real
mechanical question.. so I'll try enother highschool one..
If I drop a feather and a lead ball ten times the weight from a height,
down an inclosed vacuum tube, at exactly the same time, which will hit the
bottom first?
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:35 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Philip M (and any others interested).
It might have been interesting but in the face of such sophistry any
further effort would just be wasted effort.
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, 4 April, 2008 3:24:26 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Guys we are not descusing nor can we experinace/demonstrate a universe
with one sun and one earth in it!?.....You simply cannot creat in your heads
some imaginary universe with only two bodies in it and extropolate the physics
of the curent real universe neither did Newton or Einstine base their
conclusions on such absurdities....The conclusions of their theories and even
in their thought experiments was based on all the bodies interacting with each
other................without absolut knowledge of what gravity is in the first
place your disscusion realy will be nothing more then a "game" not any
meaningfull discussion on inertia or detectable accelerations......... MS does
not claim the physics of the universe to work on a two body system!.......Thus,
it is not even remotley posible to mimic the real universe except in the
imaginations of your heads and even at that assuming gravity is what you think
it is in the first place!? I not interested in pursuing that kind of "game".
Start with what you have not with what you do not have..We have observations
that show not imagine that what you suppose is not true from the get go!..Why
persue a conclusion we already know to be false?!.....If it were true that you
could not detect accelertions in a free fall around in a grav feild then simply
the tides cold not exist as per MS.....Guys I'm not interested in pursuing your
thought experiments that are based on false assumptions. You dont see your
whole problem is you are so indocrinated with your idea of gravity that is
actualy not even correct in MS but you insist on it so much that you refuse to
see that your "games" are not based on any reality they are based on your lack
of understanding of MS......???
----- Original Message ----
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 12:05:38 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Yeah...Wwork from a basic setup .. Nothing in the universe but a
stationary sun and a planet orbiting around it at a great speed.. There is no
need to bring in the butterfly principle that fluttering wings in Adelaide
makes it rain in New York.
Even Allen must accept, geocentrism or not, that we can lay down ground
rules for our lab in space experiment.. Another sun another planet all alone
in the void.
OK now I am all the way with PD that no accelerometer on that planet no
matter how sensitive, will detect the acceleration of that planet as it
circles that sun at a constant velocity in a perfectly circular orbit.. .
That will do for starters so as not to complicate the maths with
elliptical variables and barycentres..
After that when Allen finds that we is true, we can bring in other
variables due to elliptical orbits where the velocity varies, so that we will
have two different accelerations, created by the same force.. and why again the
accelerometer shows nothing..
Of course it doesn't on my kitchen table, but Allen cops out on that one
because the table aint moving. Its geocentrism see.. But the guys in or on the
space station will not feel anything on their table either.. Let the game
begin//
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Allen D
What I've always wanted to discuss but from a seeming auspicious
beginning starting at (Item 2, second paragraph, beginning "However, I will go
this far.....").
"New game" in this context means "Put aside all previous baggage and
make a fresh start concentrating exclusively on the accelerometer, the
elliptical orbit and the Sun".
At the outset, I acknowledge that every atom in the universe influences
every other atom in the universe but take the view that it is not necessary to
go to this level in order to gain an understanding of the basic mechanisms
involved.
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, 3 April, 2008 7:59:37 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
"New game. Are you interested in detachedly discussing accelerometers?"
What would you like to discuss?
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