[geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
Paul,
You are obviously confussed about a great deal........After further searches
for unequivocal evidence that you do indeed claim that acceleration caused by
gravity can be measured internal to the body being accelerated -- free fall --
I submit the following (relevant portion shown in (my addition) italics) -
ABSOLUTLY!? Paul, I went one step further, it is not a "claim", it is a fact
of reality in any and every ref frame you can create! & I NEVER, EVER
SUGGERSTED OTHERWISE.....!?
you did not get it .....so here it is again......
.******************** I did not claim that "an accelerometer would indicate a
change in velocity due to gravity" ..I stated as a fact that any change in
whatever interial state ( in GTR/STR Gravity and inertia are one and the same)
you are in, no matter what you take as your interial "ref frame", that for a
fact, in-deed and in application that change will and has and always will be
detectable as you said "for ever and ever amen"!.....I have "steped up to the
plate" and showed, demonstrated and even cited proof. It is you keep changing
("Making like an eel in a bucket of warm fat") the approach without ever
addressing my original post (quantum & laser gyros/accelerometers) or my
secondary post to your "mass/spring" diversion. I have already shown you
clearly and specificly how and exactly why a accelerometor can and will and in
fact does measure any change in the intertial state, in a free fall or not. The
only outstanding issues left to be addressed if
any are ones of scale not practical/ actual application(s)
**************************
Not only did you miss the emphisis complely, but I did not even word my
position that way ...!?
Continuing Now:..... back to the issues......
-Gravity and inertia are one and the same thing in MS.....!?
-An acceleration is a change by defintion but a change wrt what!?
That is why my previous post addressed the grav/inertia and acceleration issues
as follows.........
Snip.................
If the earth remained stationary wrt a distanct star but a car on the earth
first sitting at rest then began to accelerate by 1g due to that same distanct
star, would that motion be detected by your mass accelerometer in the car or
not?
There are only two posibilites:
1. If not....... then please expalin to everyone what causes the tides and
planitary bulges so we can establish the underlying physics for gravity/
inertia.....?
2. If so......... then the only difference is scale of the effects....between a
car laying horizonaly on the earths suface and "free falling at 1g toward a
distant star or a bomb hanging horizonaly to a distant star and free falling 1
g to earth's suface....
The problem with your "mass and spring" is only one of resolution or scale
that is why I appealed to quantum and laser acclerometers/ gyros. It is not
that the effect is not there in relaity it is just that in relaity our mass on
a spring is not sinsitive enougph to measure what is taking place regaurdless
of GU or HC universe.......
.........................................
Let me futher expand on the thought there with the car in that previous
email........hint ....the car is accelerated & to the distant star as the
...Oceans.....tides...are accelerated by/ to the distant
moon....via...??....ummmmm......it starts with a "Grav" and ends with
a....."ity".
..now jump to point # 2. If so......... then the only difference is scale of
the effects....between a car laying horizonaly on the earths suface and "free
falling at 1g toward a distant star or a bomb hanging horizonaly to a distant
star and free falling 1 g to earth's suface....
If gravity acts on all parts of the accelerometer equally and simoltaniouly
then ......come on, the fire works and light bulb should have gone off days ago
by now....!?
All and any of my post were all addressing the exact same issue in the same
way!?
In my last Posting I decided to exand upon your questions but only so far as to
put another nail in and Prove my point and add more highlight to your error. If
you can't understand your logical error here then all the math in the world
will not prove anything excpect to discrtiact from the issue...YOU HAVE A
LOGICAL CONTRIDICTION IN YOUR/MS EXPLINATIONS/ UNDERSTANDING/APPLICATIONS of
Gravity, inertia and "inertial reference frames"....just to name a few...!
I will not be diverted by your attempted sleight of hand tricks. Point out the
error in my closing paragraph or forever hold to silence.
Paul D
That is what you asked for and that is what i gave you......!? Read it again....
"I'm going to be charitable and assume that you still do not grasp what I'm
saying about accelerometers........................
Now for the crunch, the bit where our velocity changes due to acceleration by
gravity. (Note - from a recent post from Regner, perhaps 'speed' is more
appropriate here -- please comment if you think it appropriate. In any event,
what I'm trying to convey is that our rate of travel increases). This time, we
place our vehicle into elliptical orbit -- around Earth will suffice -- and as
we pass apogee, we begin to accelerate. At this moment we place our
accelerometer 1 kg mass outside the vehicle with velocities matched and engage
our distance and time measuring devices. After we have passed perigee we will
have stopped accelerating and begin decelerating. At no time from apogee to
perigee will the 1 kg mass have fallen behind or overtaken us and this will not
change from perigee back to apogee and so on for ever and ever amen. Despite
acceleration and deceleration due to gravity in an elliptical orbit, our
accelerometer will indicate no change in
velocity.",,OK quite simply your wrong ...why? ..Then how exactly does the
moon accelerate the ocean tides separate and very disticntive ( in my opinion)
from the rest of the mass on the earth it passes over.......why, it appears to
take the water wrt land and "leave it behind" .........ummm
..............Maybe it has somthing to do with "Hooke's law of elasticity"..!?
:-)
The error in your closing paragraph.... here it is.....
You can't use gravity to create "Differential Forces" & effects and then use
the same causes for thoese same forces to cause the same forces to be
"non-differential" (wrt measurable acceleration) all at the same time...!?..I
suppose though that is "the micicle of modern scicence"
Again class, .....in MS Gravity and inertia are one and the same, and
acceleration (& even direction too:-) is always and only wrt the "almighty"
"INERTIAL REFERENCE FRAME".....????? Does the sun & or moon accelerate the
tides or not ?
If not then where do the tides come from ?..:-) If it does then how can you
claim that you could not detect or measure an acceleration using a
"mass/spring"/ earth v water ( im herby now invoking "Hooke's law of
elasticity"..i think:-) of a body in free fall within "inertial ref frames"?
NOW..ummm.. couph.....exactly why do you think that your mass outside your
craft would not get left behind again.........?????
................................
However all of this was a distraction you inserted away from my primar address
which as i pointed out so many times was...........
"The problem with your "mass and spring" is only one of resolution or scale
that is why I appealed to quantum and laser acclerometers/ gyros. It is not
that the effect is not there in relaity it is just that in relaity our mass on
a spring is not sinsitive enougph to measure what is taking place regaurdless
of GU or HC universe......."
Can you see/appreciate the full extent of your/MS problem(s) now?
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:16:45 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs
Allen D
After further searches for unequivocal evidence that you do indeed claim that
acceleration caused by gravity can be measured internal to the body being
accelerated -- free fall -- I submit the following (relevant portion shown in
(my addition) italics) -
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