Allen D After further searches for unequivocal evidence that you do indeed claim that acceleration caused by gravity can be measured internal to the body being accelerated -- free fall -- I submit the following (relevant portion shown in (my addition) italics) - From allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Tue Jan 29 00:00:10 2008 I know I was in part piggy backing ..........but for good reason ;-)... my point was that description does not describe the earth's orbit at all because the acceleration rate must change. The calcs we provided were only the average or mean acceleration rate not the constant rate. The earth's orbit demands changes in acceleration rates and that is what we are looking for and that is what can be measured and what we should expect to be measured. This is part of my thesis for why acceleration and gravity are not one and the same thing....gyroscopes operate primarily on the gravitational forces within any given gravitational field where acceleration is a change only wrt the ARF. My arguments are pointing to the fact that even though the gyroscope may not be able to detect a translational motion of a body the acceleration rate of that same body and in fact any motion of any body period can and is detected even within the earth's gravitational field. Paul D Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail