NO you can not, and that is the rub. HC claims there is no difference between what the annual motion and the nightly motion produce. So how are you going to show the motion, when HC itself calims there is no differnece between the two..? However, HC can not do that the way HC is modeled. That is our point! Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Jack L This heliocentrist is NOT saying that the second (annual revolution) motion cannot be detected. I have been describing how it CAN be detected for a year and a half but unfortunately this seems to be in most everyone's dark cupboard into which none of you seem to have the courage look. I've tried to remove the subject from this emotional exclusion zone by shifting the phenomenon to Mars but that didn't work either. See several short posts "Translational motion of Mars". Egocentrism? Spelling error or is there a point here that I am missing? Paul D ----- Original Message ---- From: Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, 19 November, 2007 9:08:38 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing Dear All, In the heliocentric model it would appear that there are two movements taking place, which is not disputed, but the observations support only one movement- egocentrism. The heliocentrists seem to be saying that the second movement cannot be detected for reasons I do not understand. Will it help if I ask the question, why can't it be detected if it exists? We can't see the moon turning actually but we know it does simply by the observations and dynamics involved. Therefore I would expect the helios to be able to do the same. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Daves To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing Ja, I agree with your drawings... Again no one is debating the fact that the annual motion will record the nightly motion....that is a FACT!...however it is also a fact that a secondary motion would and must be present that is not a assumption that is a physical fact, just as in the case of a orbital sander........Your conclusion which states just the opposite is an assumption by definition.....What do you not understand? more in blue.... --------------------------------- Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.