[geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:14:56 -0800 (PST)
Paul,
Those are the only key objections made and they are both either irrelevant or
wrong
1. We are not limited to what time we take a photo 23.56 or 24
2. Radial condition around a axis will produce a rotational effect wether or
not you are looking at the axis or wether or not a real rotation exist or
not........That is the whole story.....If the motions as described by HC
existed they would have to manifest themselves they cannot hid in "angles and
hours" period!......You think there is more to it but there is not. To prove
it, a simple experiment such as the one i show in my drawings will demonstrate
this is true and even known to be true.......
I am convinced that HC folk or those who don?t accept this proof are not
going to be convinced until they do some experimental work, but all the
arguments have been addressed and soundly refuted. Like i said HC has got
people so confused they can?t see even if it standing right in front of them.
It is not a question of opinion. The argument is are already demonstrated sound
and can be experimentally verified. What the trouble is GC has assumed it is
true because HC assumed it was true for so long. When this whole idea came up
400 years ago there were no photo plates and no way to validate that idea until
the last century on any scale....As with many assumptions in HC it just kept
moving forward with no one noticing it because they had no real way of
falsifying it. However today we do and can ..........?
Allen
P.S. Before we move on to mars discussions lets stick to earthly
ones..particularly if they are fundamental the same...?
Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Allen D
My comment -
[4] Earth rotates once in ~ 23h 56m not one (24h) day.
was intended only to draw attentation to an error -
This illustrates the world's 24 hour rotation
The Earth rotates 360 deg (one rotation) in ~ 23h 56m -- not one (mean solar)
day.
Secondly you do not have to look at a axis to observe the rotaional effect
of any axis the nightly proves that...
This is true but it doesn't tell the whole story.
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, 19 November, 2007 12:41:06 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing
The Radial condition on Jacks chart, as in reality, in the HC system exist
every 24 hours period!.......not 23.56..in fact 23.56 is irrelevant except to
explain the nightly rotation..it has nothing to do with annual rotation...!?
Secondly you do not have to look at a axis to observe the rotaional effect of
any axis the nightly proves that...Thus the angle of the camera is irrelvant...
The same objections keep being raised that have already been proven wrong or
irrelevant?????
Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jack L
I've been thinking about your drawing too and am as puzzled as Marc V. This
drawing seems to be some sort of hybrid of both HC and GC systems. And your
later post says that the drawing is what you claim heliocentrists claim which I
for one disclaim.
I see a number of terminology problems here -- let me address these first. [1]
The Earth does not rotate on two axes -- it rotates on one axis and revolves
around the Sun (surprisingly not shown). [2] The word 'traverse' means to
cross, to follow a zig-zag course (several places).
Now problems of description. [3] It is not clear to me what is '..the
world...'. If the green circles are a spot on the world how then does its
surface encompass the plane of the ecliptic? [4] Earth rotates once in ~ 23h
56m not one (24h) day. [5] The Earth's orbit lies on the plane of the ecliptic,
the 'axis' of which is the NEP not the NCP (nice to have the company --
welcome!) This is the axis about which the Earth revolves -- a circular
translation. There is only one ecliptic plane -- not four, not 365.25 -- one!
[6] That one pole circles another is just a figure of speech in relative terms
used for illustrative purposes only. The stars are stationary. [7] As above --
there is only one rotation. You cannot compare radial velocity with
translational velocity. 'Happening on very different time scales' would be
closer.
I really don't know why you guys are so hung up over these issues -- the whole
thing is dead simple. There are two motions -
1. The Earth revolves around the Sun describing an ellipse on the ecliptic
plane. The Sun -- the centre of mass of Sun/Earth -- is at one focus of the
ellipse. This focus is also on the ecliptic plane. A line orthogonal to this
plane passing through the Sun is known as the Ecliptic Pole. It points in a
constant direction.
2. The Earth rotates on its axis (you can't have one without the other -- is
this a redundancy I wonder?) once in ~ 23h 56m. The axis of this rotation is
inclined to the plane of the ecliptic. To a first approximation, there is no
precession. This axis is thus pointing always in one direction. It is called
the Celestial Pole and is inclined to the plane of the ecliptic at an angle of
~ 66.5 deg or 23.5 deg from the ecliptic pole.
3. These motions do not interact. The Earth's axis of rotation could be
inclined at any angle to the ecliptic plane and it would have no effect on its
revolution. (See Uranus for example).
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Lewis
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, 18 November, 2007 2:38:08 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] 2 Axes of rotation - drawing
Dear All,
This is my attempt to explain more graphically Neville's last drawing showing
the two axes of rotation. [1]
1 The green circles are a fixed spot on the world [3] shown in four different
positions traversing [2] the ecliptic path. The NEP is perpendicular to the
grey ecliptic plane. This illustrates the world's 24 hour rotation. [4] I have
tried to take great care to get the geometry correct within the limitations of
my drawing software.
2 The green circles also represent the world traversing its annual orbit about
the NCP. [5] These are shown as red ellipses. The NEP, according to my drawing
geometry, also traverses the NCP. [6]
Since there are two rotations happening simultaneously but at very different
velocities [7] the illustration can only show an NCP rotation (red ellipses)
extrapolated for a whole year. I value comments by all as to whether I have
understood the problem or not. I do have a series of 12 illustrations, similar
to the one below, showing the position of the ecliptic plane every 30 degrees
about the NCP.
Jack Lewis
www.classiccarartist.co.uk
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