E-mail in my mind is broken, the entire process of e-mail needs to be took back to the drawing board and revised. Whitelisting isn't going to work, blacklisting isn't going to work, keyword blocking isn't going to work, etc. You seem to have a good hold of how to reduce spam in your organization, but you haven't mentioned exactly how you do it. Please share. I'm not trying to be rude, but for you to make a comment that the problem with spam can be fixed, though not simply, and not let us know how or where to start on the task is shortwinded. If you have tips or solutions for defending an organization against spam in a costly manner then please share them with us. We're here to be a community to better each and every member of this discussion list. Someone asked a question regarding Outlook 2000/XP and you simply responded, "yes." I'm sorry if I feel that your answer was irrelevant but it seems as though just simply stating "yes" makes it seem as though you have a grasp on the concept of the uber-geek and that no one should know your solutions. The person simply asked a question and in my mind, wanted to know the process of doing it, but such a simple answer of "yes" will in no way answer the user's question. If you have a solution to a problem, respond, if you do not then don't waste my bandwidth. -----Original Message----- From: John Tolmachoff (Lists) [mailto:johnlist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:58 AM To: [ExchangeList] Subject: [exchangelist] RE: Relay permissions error ... http://www.MSExchange.org/ I am not biased, far from it. I am a small business myself, one man shop. I wear the following hats: Owner, Account, Consultant, Engineer, Cable Installer, e-mail admin, Network Admin, firewall admin, Tier 1 support, Tier 2 support, Tier 3 support, etc. In and amongst all this, I do my best to help others to pay back all the help I get from others. But I am biased in that I hate spam and fully realize the cost it places upon us daily. The inhearant problem with DNS blacklists is that not one is perfect, or even close to it. Each and every one has False Positives and each and every one will not catch every piece of spam. This can therefore lead to other problems, such as the one you are experiencing. Do you know it has been proven that a popular DNS Blacklist has repeatedly listed a major financially related company because of people subject to their actions complained about them? The name of the company listed, Dunn & Bradstreet. That caused tremendous problems for a major corporation that received many messages from D&B hourly as part of business, and would find itself suddenly not receiving them. Now, that company realizes what a battle with spam really is. Relying upon a DNS blacklist to find and stop spam is like saying all teen ages do not know how to drive. That is a blanket statement and is wrong. Fighting the war on spam is not an easy one, and can not be done with a simple single approach. You say you cramped for money. So are most of us. Now maybe your companies experience with Spam is better than 99% of us, but dealing with spam does cost the company one way or another. If you are cramped for money on the war on spam, have you investigated other options? There are ways of fighting it without spend large amounts of money. Example, I and others, using our software and our infrastructure and our experience and our combined knowledge offer services to others for a reasonable rate because we know not every company can afford to fight the war on their own. Now, like I have posted before, maybe we should all work together to find a better solution to a problem rather than trying to find a quick fix. BTW, I do not relay on keywords either. John Tolmachoff MCSE CSSA Engineer/Consultant eServices For You www.eservicesforyou.com