[ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations

  • From: "John J. Fioravanti, Jr." <fioresq1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 13:12:32 -0400

Hi: Just wandering Why you both seem to prefer firewire over PCI? Thanks.  

-----Original Message-----
From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 4:04 AM
To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations

I totally agree, as long as you get a propper motherboard with propper
firewire chips and configure your stuff correctly you'll have no firewire
issues plus I don't see a reason why you would want to go below a 64 sample
buffer size.
If it will make you more comfortable about firewire, find out what
motherboard you're going to get in your machine, then check what firewire
chip it uses and research online whether people have any issues with those
firewire chips on a windows machine. Oh and while mentioning windows, I hope
you're going for windows 7 and not back to windows xp, I know a lot of jaws
users still like xp but I don't see a reason why not to use windows 7, plus
you can probably expect to have some driver issues with the firewire if
running xp. Way back in the days of xp microsoft wasn't very fond of the
firewire thing because it's Apples interface. But as the years whent on,
hardware guys started putting firewire on motherboards because the demand
was there so microsoft had to build firewire drivers for windows xp. Because
it wasn't in xp from the start and later added on, the chances of having
issues with very new motherboards and sound interfaces are good but because
firewire was designed in to windows 7 from the start, it is rock solid.

On 9/22/12, D!J!X! <megamansuperior@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I can say that if you get the right hardware and get it configured 
> properly, firewire will not be an issue, as long as you don't need to 
> go lower than
> 64
> samples buffers.
> I've even heard of some real nice USB offerings, mostly from motu 
> though, as the others for high track counts might be iffy.
>
> Regards, D!J!X!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J. Fioravanti, Jr.
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:17 PM
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations
>
> I'd like to stay with what I have; however, the machine is 7 years old 
> and don't think it will last much longer. Also, I already purchased 
> 8.5 and can't find the upgrades to sonar 6 any where, must have lost 
> the cd I saved it on. Anyway, your suggestions are very helpful. My 
> son, who is very expert in computer and works for me in my law office, 
> is a bit leery of firewire.
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:36 PM
> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations
>
> Because you mostly mix in the box and not on the outboard mixer I 
> would recommend getting a control serfice and then a firewire 
> interface like the focusrite safire pro 40 or the presonus firestudio 
> or fire tube. Have a look at the Mackie control serfices, from what I 
> hear they are very good at a reasonable price. I know the safire pro 
> 40s software pannel is accessible by using HSC but not sure of the 
> presonus cards.
> I personally think firewire is stable enough to record with and you 
> will easally record 8 tracks at the same time with the pro 40 even 
> with low latencies. PCI can maybe be a better option but personally I 
> think it is only a better option if you go to a bigger setup like 24,
> 32 or 64 track recording. If you later want to expand to more than 8 
> channel recording at the same time, then you can simply buy a pre amp 
> or rack with8 pre amps with a ADAT output, it will plug in to the 
> safire pro 40 giving you
> 16 pre amps to record with at once. A good example of a 8 channel ADAT 
> pre amp is the presonus digimax but there's a lot of options out there 
> depending on your needs and budget.
> If you really want to add a mixer you can look at the little 
> soundcraft analog mixers, there's a couple of models ranging in 
> feetures and channel count, think there's 8, 12 and 16 channels, those 
> mixers are really nice and compact.
> The great thing about this is setup is that you don't have to buy 
> everything at once. You can first buy the safire interface and get 
> going with that. As your needs and budget then grow or if you feel you 
> need it you can then add the control serfice and later also 8 more pre 
> amps if needed or as said if you feel you want it, also a small analog 
> mixer.
>
> A question on was why don't you stick with your current setup if it 
> aint broken why fix it. Well I guess the main reason for your upgrade 
> is to get better quality gear to get a better sound. Well the 
> focusrite safire stuff is a huge upgrade in terms of sound quality 
> over the m-audio stuff and the soundcraft mixer will also be a huge 
> bump up in quality from the mackie mixer you are using. The great 
> thing about the control serfice is that it doesn't effect your sound 
> quality because it only passes command information too and from sonar, 
> it doesn't pass audio signals, so whether you buy a really low priced
> 1 fader serfice for $80 or whether you buy a huge avid control serfice 
> for $70000, it all depends on what you need and what will work for you.
>
> On 9/21/12, John J. Fioravanti, Jr. <fioresq1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Nickus: I run my hard synths into a mackey 1202VLZ and take the main 
>> outs into a delta 66. I also have a separate preamp with two outs so 
>> combined with the Mackey, I can record four tracks at once, 
>> unfortunately, not in stereo. I use some soft synths. I generally mix 
>> in sonar and don't run back into the mixer. I use automation all the 
>> time.
> Thanks for everything.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:02 AM
>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations
>>
>> Hi
>> The focusrite Safire cards are full interfaces in other words you can 
>> use it with out a outboard mixer. The safire pro 40 is basically a 1U 
>> sized chassy.
>> You connect it to the computer via firewire, then you connect your 
>> mics instruments or synths directly to its XLR/jack inputs and your 
>> monitor speakers or headphones directly to its outputs. It's 
>> basically like a very simplified mixer with all the inputs and 
>> outputs but without faders and channel strips with EQ, aux sends etc.
>>
>> The advantage of using a control serfice when mixing in the box is 
>> that you basically have some physical faders and knobs to work with 
>> and you don't have to do everything on the computer keyboard. A 
>> control serfice makes tasks like fader automation, 
>> muting/soloing/arming tracks, navigation through tracks and even plug 
>> in
> control much easyer and hands on.
>>
>> I won't say that there's a advantage of using a control serfice 
>> rather than a full mixer. I would still always prefer mixing on a 
>> propper analog mixer rather than mixing in the box even with a 
>> propper control serfice. It really depends on your work flow and what 
>> you prefer, I've heard amazing mixes done only in the box so it's not 
>> really a question of quality anymore like it was a couple of years ago.
>>
>> If you can explain a bit about your current work flow then maybe I 
>> can advise you better. What gear do you have, how is your soundcards 
>> connected to your pre amps, how is your mixer connected to your 
>> soundcard and after recording to sonar, how do you currently mix, in 
>> the box or do you send out to the mixer and mix analog.
>> I'm just trying to get a feel for how you do things and your current 
>> setup, as it sounds to me so far, you prefer a analog workflow rather 
>> than doing a lot of stuff in the box on sonar.
>>
>> On 9/21/12, John J. Fioravanti, Jr. <fioresq1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> I am having  daw custom built. a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of D!J!X!
>>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:02 AM
>>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, what will you be doing for the most part, recording with mics, 
>>> playing back lots of tracks (mixing and mastering), or messing 
>>> around with soft synths, or a bit of all that. Performance wise, PCI 
>>> express cards run better than firewire or USB, mainly because 
>>> firewire interfaces for the most part use dice II chipsets which has 
>>> its limitations; I think you can't go lower than 64 samples buffer. 
>>> From what I've seen PCIE cards have better latency and can go down 
>>> to 32 on a system that is properly configured, which is the 
>>> question, what kind of system are you getting, is it a prepared daw?
>>>
>>> Bak to interfaces, RME makes some solid stuff, but it's expensive, 
>>> and you'll have to buy the proper breakout box for your needs; not 
>>> sure on its preAmps and such, but the drivers, stability and latency 
>>> is
> good.
>>>
>>> In the firewire land, there's the focusrite saffire lines, stuff 
>>> like the pro40, the liquid mix, the 56 etc. Motu also has some good 
>>> stuff in both USB and I believe PCIE and firewire.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> HTH, D!J!X!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   _____
>>>
>>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
>>> Fioravanti, Jr.
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:50 PM
>>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations
>>>
>>> Haven't decided on the type of connection yet, either PCI or firewire.
>>> Would
>>> you recommend firewire? e budget is not the problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of D!J!X!
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:43 PM
>>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ddots-l] Re: sound card and mixer recommendations
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What's your budget? What kind of  connection capabilities does your 
>>> new computer have, firewire, PCI express, USB etc.
>>>
>>> How much controll do you want over control panel and such, do you 
>>> have outboard gear like preAmps and such or do you need something 
>>> with good preas already in it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> HTH, D!J!X!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   _____
>>>
>>> From: ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:ddots-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
>>> Fioravanti, Jr.
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:33 PM
>>> To: ddots-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [ddots-l] sound card and mixer recommendations
>>>
>>> Hi: For a few years I've been waiting for caketalking to make 9 
>>> accessible and although I purchased 8.5 I've never installed it. 
>>> Been using 6; however, I'm about to upgrade to 64 bit  with a new 
>>> computer and sonar 8.5. Any recommendations for workable sound cards 
>>> and mixers to enable me to record at least eight tracks at once? 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> John Fioravanti
>>>
>>>
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