[C] [Wittrs] Re: !!!Re: Re: Metaphysical Versus Mystical
- From: Sean Wilson <whoooo26505@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:48:38 -0800 (PST)
Hi Neil.
I. I was only saying that the statements were nonsense in Tractarian terms. Not
my own. The fact that you can imagine a unicorn with two purple souls is
something Tractarian Wittgenstein would either doubt outright or would want to
know what verification of the matter consisted of. If I am reading this right
-- and I would love to be corrected (just doing my best) -- all matters must
boil down to a true/false, yes/no, or be in service of the same. If you have
a matter that cannot reduce to this format, you don't have something that can
be said in the sense of "demonstrable thinking." Another way of saying it is:
the only true form of thinking is science, logic, & math.
However, as Kirby pointed out (much of which I will attend later in the day),
"true thinking" is not really the Lord Barron in Wittgenstein's world, once the
mystical enters the picture. Wittgenstein does not deny that "true thinking"
might actually be inferior to aesthetics, moral, ethics -- but he says, in
effect, that such matters cannot be demonstrated in the current form of life,
because the only way we demonstrate is by propositions (science, math, logic).
And so here we are. Language is a picture. Logic, math and science are the
tools. Metaphysics go in the trash can. But the mystical stays under the bed,
with hopes that a change in the form of life (death) brings about the things
that we feel (are shown to us), but cannot be proved.
2. On the issue of mathematics being empty when not put in service of
picturable statements, see:
6.21 mathematical propositions express no thoughts.
6.211 In life it is never a mathematical proposition which we need, but we use
mathematical propositions only in order to infer from propositions which do not
belong to mathematics to others which equally do not belong to mathematics.
3. On the issue of things being capable of being said because we say them,
Tractarian Wittgenstein would say that much of what people actually say is
nonsense or should be passed over in silence. And that when they actually do
speak, they merely reflect inferior thoughts. And to think properly -- without
any inferiority -- you need to form propositions.
Regards.
Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq.
Assistant Professor
Wright State University
Personal Website: http://seanwilson.org
SSRN papers: http://ssrn.com/author=596860
Discussion Group: http://seanwilson.org/wittgenstein.discussion.html
----- Original Message ----
From: iro3isdx <xznwrjnk-evca@xxxxxxxxx>
To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, January 13, 2010 12:15:25 PM
Subject: [Wittrs] !!!Re: Re: Metaphysical Versus Mystical
--- In Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Sean Wilson <whoooo26505@...> wrote:
> 1. "The unicorn is in the barn," is NOT nonsense, it is FALSE. And
> it is therefore a proposition.
That one, I can agree on.
> 2. "The unicorn has two purple souls" is nonsense, ...
I can imagine that as the first or second sentence in a short
metaphorical tale intended to make some important point that isn't
about unicorns. And if it can be used that way, then it isn't
nonsense.
> It is nonsense because of the simple fact that: (a) the matter
> cannot be pictured in the world; (b) it is not an analytic statement
> in service of something picturable; and (c) does not, therefore,
> SAY anything.
I think you have just asserted that much of pure mathematics is
nonsense and does not say anything.
> 3. "God has unicorns in heaven." This is seemingly NOT nonsense. It
> is simply unspeakable.
Yet you have just written that sentence. And if it can be written, it
can be spoken. Therefore it cannot be unspeakable. I'm not sure why
you think this importantly different from the many theological
innovations that are commonly accepted by people of various religions.
Regards,
Neil
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