Re: difference in wily ?

  • From: Serge Gagnon <gagnon__s@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: wilyfans@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:42:49 -0400

On 09 May 2002 19:35:24 +0100
"Mark H. Wilkinson" <mhw+wily@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Thu, 2002-05-09 at 17:28, James A. Robinson wrote:
> > I doubt downloads == real users, or is even close. =)  I know I downloaded
> > it years ago, and didn't grok it at all (i.e., didn't use it).  It wasn't
> > until I started reading all the Plan 9 documents that I started using
> > wily, and I had to really force myself to explore the new way of doing
> > things instead of just starting up emacs for complicated tasks.
> I'd have the same suspicion. I was talking offline with Oz about wily
> being included with things like Debian, but I can imagine most users
> being scared off by it when they first see it. I get the feeling that
> acme and it's tools are set up in such a way under Plan 9 that it's
> probably not too difficult for a new user to pick up once they have the
> basic principles under their belt, and quickly becomes compelling. I
> don't think wily ever quite got to that level of polish.
I think that it's true and false in the the same time. ( won't compile ;)
Let me speak about my experience with wily ( short ) because I'm a a new user,
not all the new users, but one of them.
First of all, I'm not just new on wily, but on unix too ( OpenBSD )
since one year. I found wily by accident : i was just curious about
the bizzaroid stuff in the /usr/ports/plan9/stuff in my OS. The description
said : a powerful editor fo programer. I compile/installed and open ... heheheh
and I said "Tabarna... it's probably the editor that Jacques Cartier had
in his boat when he discover the St-Lawrence's Valley in 1644". Am I need
to tell you that I deinstalled this... garbage... immediatly ?

Wily is not intuitive without a little help. It's true that it GUI
cannot be compare to things like any WYSIWIG or something like kdevelop
for programer. ok for this.

However, when I discovered the wily tutorial one month after ( i didn't
see this doc the first time because my ports mechanism installed it
too fast )  and I have enough time to waste ;) to try it...
fiou... I don't know enough word in english to tell you how I was ...
well surprize. The only thing that I can tell is I had some spasm in my brain...
I'm not kidding you, it's true. When I realized the power of this tool
and all the things that I'll could do with it, I realized in the same time
that wily is not an editor full of windows but a window over all my unix's 
and it can have the power and control on my system as much as 
my unix's knowledge. ( and I wish that you'll understand this much more than
my english knowledge :)

Don't forget that I'm new on unix, I didn't take any 
professional unix's course or programming ( is not what I wished) and
my apprenticeship is very randomely. Wily increase the speed of
my apprenticeship. By example, because I dont have ten xterm spreaded
over ten virtual screen but all the information centralized. I dont lost
or forget some information and I save a lots of clickclickclickclick of
searching what I want and clickclickclick to return at the first place.

Because of its B2 B2-B1ing possibility, it begin to be funny to 
learn a shell. The first time I did a man some_shell I was discouraged...
Now, it's like a game that it begin to be more serious. Wily have been and
be a strong help to motive myself to learn my shell ( rc .. evidemment :)
and to learned and learn a TONS of other things.

I'm new on unix but I'm not the only one... and I suspicion especially
on Linux because I think that this OS must attract much more users
than OpenBSD or a SunOS by example. They probably don't know nothing
about unix and just try it because it is "a la mode".
To understand quickly, correctly and deeply unix, they need some good tools
and wily IS one of these good tools. I think that it good like a 
learning tools and for advanced users too.
In finishing, I didn't find  more difficult to learn wily than vi.
I think that the experienced unix's users must have more difficulty 
to addapt there old reflex of making a shift+ZZ to save and close 
a file than a click  Put/Del.
The evidence is that the only one user  that I can't show a talk about 
wily is an old ( 25 years experience ) programmer. 
He always said to me " I'm use to use jed and its good ... jed .. jed...
jed... jed... jed... no.. no... jed... no... no...jed" heheh :)
I wish that anyone here will recognize himself before he tried wily in that
 sentence ;)

I'm tired... one hour to translate this post... for a 30 second to read.

Serge Gagnon

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