[THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN? - thin

[THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?

From: Angus Macdonald <Angus.Macdonald@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:34:45 +0100
HP do similar spec blades but they are much lower density than the Dells so
I expect the heat is easier to get rid of. High density HP blades are only
1GHz. You match the server to the application I suppose.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Smith [mailto:nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 17 June 2004 12:07
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


Yes, but IBM are selling 2*3.06 Xeon Blades. They're pricier than the Dells,
but the 2.8 GHz IBM is at na equivalent price point to teh Dell 1.4...

  _____  

From: Angus Macdonald [mailto:Angus.Macdonald@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: 17 June 2004 11:42
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


Blades are small and it must be a hard job to get rid of the heat generated
by faster CPUs in such a small package.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Smith [mailto:nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 17 June 2004 08:56
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


On the blades issue, can anyone explain why teh Dell blades are so slow? My
standard method of pricing stuff up for gueestimate/budget pricing is to go
to Dell's web-site, do the maths, and add 20%. As far as I can see, the
fastest Dell Blade is a P3 1.4Ghz. Am I being stupid or is it just that Dell
is behind the curve? Why would anyone buy a P3 1.4 Ghz server today?
 
Nick

  _____  

From: Jeff Malczewski [mailto:jmalczewski@xxxxxxxx] 
Sent: 16 June 2004 21:08
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


No, they pay me the same regardless, they just get a higher ROI.  But, they
don't seem to care about that.  See, it works kinda like this:
 
No matter how many hours I work, I get paid the same.
 
So, if they spend $100k to get 10 servers, and they give me three days to
put them in, I work day and night until they're in.  If I tell them "But if
you get these other servers here for $150k, I can have them in in 3 days
working only 8 to 5", they say "We'll save the $50k, better pack lunch AND
dinner"
 
Welcome to my world.
 
And yes, TCO of server based computing is WAY better.  If we still had 900
individual workstations instead of 900 thin clients and a dozen servers,
they'd have to hire another one of me, plus deal with the maintenance and
upgrade costs of the desktops.  I was able to get them to understand that
much at least.  Thank god, too, because I KNOW they wouldn't have hired
another one of me...
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 3:51 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


I never quite understood the whole salary idea, they still have to pay you
for the time it takes. If you save time on task A, you can get to task B and
in the end they pay you less and get more productivity for the organziation.
 
Then again, I have been preaching the TCO of Server Based Computing for
years and very few have card about that either!!
 
 

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Taylor, George
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:39 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


I know the feeling, I'm sourlied also......
 
Are you using Director for your IBM servers?


  _____  

From: Jeff Malczewski [mailto:jmalczewski@xxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:31 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


Unfortunately, I'm salaried, so they don't care if it takes me a week to
install 20 servers (and it probably would!)   :(  *sniff*

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 3:11 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


Cost Savings from Blades;
 
Here is one anecdotal story- I recently installed 20 new dual XEON blades
servers at customer site in 50 minutes!
 
With the boxes sitting there unopened and power run to the rack, we started
the clock, mounted the chassis, loaded the servers and brought them up live
on the network with LINUX, stopped the clock and only 50 minutes had gone
by. This was using the RLX product, which by far has the best managment
capabilities. If these were to be Citrix servers, we could have loaded an
image on all of them and joined all servers to the farm in probably another
50 minutes. Note, this was with full installation, kvm, network, etc
complete !!
 
 

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Taylor, George
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:04 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


I'm not sure I can justify it cost wise compared to 1U servers, but
management wise I believe I can.  Imagine a rack with 28 - 1U servers in
it...
28 KVM cables
28 Power Cords, hope a power supply doesn't pop, I can't think of a 1U that
has dual PSs, but there may be.
28 Network cables (56 for redundancy)
Just basic cable management would be a nightmare.  You've now used 28 ports
on your KVM switch and you've used 56 ports on your network switch (hope
your networking guys like you...)  and how many PDUs did you have to mount
in that rack?
 
Now let's use 28 blades, thats 2 chassis.
2 KVM cables
8 power cords
8 network cables, 16 if your networking guys like you.
28 Fiber Channel cables if your using SAN based storage
1/2 the rack space used.
 
Yes, I know servers like the X335 you can daisy chain the KVM together, but
I can't say how it works, we never got the management module to do that.  I
VPN into our network from home, point my browser at the management module
and have remote control over all my blades w/o anything like PCAnywhere or
such.  I haven't looked at the math lately, but power consumption is also
reduced dramatically.


  _____  

From: Jeff Malczewski [mailto:jmalczewski@xxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:49 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


The cost of the FastT-700 and the associated switch fabric was what I was
most interested in..  I'm rather unfamiliar with SANs and was just curious
as to the price of an entire solution would be if I were to build a new
facility from the ground with this solution instead of individual boxes..
What administrative benefits have you seen from this as opposed to 5
individual 1U boxes??  It seems to me that the individual servers are still
WAY cheaper, so there must be some real-world justification, just trying to
find it..
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Taylor, George [mailto:gtaylor@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:36 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


I can't give you the full price, our infastructure was already in place, but
I can give you an close idea.  Here is what I remember about the latest
project, keep in mind that one bladecenter was already in place as well as
the FastT-700 and associated switching fabric.
 
The BladeCenter with optical pass-thru, ethernet switch, bigger power
supplies, Accustic Attenuation Module (muffler), 3yr 24x7x4 support and all
associated fiber cables, etc...  about $11K
5 Blades, (Dual 2.8 Xeons, 4gigs, HBA, 40Gig IDE drive) w/ 3yr 24x7x4 about
$35K
5 145Gig fiber channel drives for the FastT about $10K
New Storage shelf and shortwave GBics for the FastT about $7K
 
Along w/ that was things like server CALs, TSM CALs, etc...   The whole
project HW and SW turned in right around $80K
 


  _____  

From: Jeff Malczewski [mailto:jmalczewski@xxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:26 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


How many HS20's do you have, what was the cost for JUST hardware for that
solution, including the FastT, and how much storage do you have available to
you??
 
How many U does the complete solution take up, including the FastT?
 
I currently use 6 x330's (Dual P3, 4Gb RAM, 1U) for my TS farm...
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Taylor, George [mailto:gtaylor@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:37 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?


We're implementing this right now.  You give up one of the on-board drives
to make space for the HBA.  What I've decided to do is boot from the SAN and
use the little on-board IDE drive for nothing but the swap and temp files.
You can get SCSI drives on the blades, but its an attached cage that takes
up a second slot.  My testing using the HS20s, dual Xeons, 4gig ram, booting
from the FastT has shown them to be very robust machines.  Currently we only
have 1 Optical pass-thru and 1 ethernet switch installed, but you can double
up on both for redundancy if need be.  The ethernet switch gives you 4 ports
that can be trunked and plays very well with our Cisco 6500 gear, the
throughput is good and from what our networking guys say we are hardly
touching the 4gig limit.  The optical pass-thru gives you a fiber channel
from each and every blade, wire management with that much fiber coming from
such a little space is a chore, but does work.


  _____  

From: SMREKAR, JACK [mailto:SMREKAR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:59 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?



While we do not have any blades I have been also thinking about using them
for some things.  Depending upon the company you use for your blades I would
question if you need to use a SAN for the storage of your apps.  They are
coming with upwards of 80 gig drives and I think some of them are now just
starting to come with SCSI drives so you can mirror the drives.  I would
look at purchasing them as they are and not to worry about attaching them to
a SAN.  Besides I am not sure that you could get a HBA inside one of them to
attach to the SAN.

 

Jack Smrekar

Appleton Area School District

 


  _____  


From: Chris Grecsek [mailto:grecsek@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:31 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Hardware - Blades, SAN?

 

We're trying to determine which way to go with our backend hardware for our
Citrix farm...I've been hearing a lot about these blade servers and was
wondering if we should setup our farm on a slew of blades and tie it into a
SAN? Seems like the optimal configuration for a ton of users running basic
apps like Office, IE, Acrobat, etc. 

 

Was wondering if anyone had any feedback regarding a setup like this - have
you done it, advisable, not really, pro/cons, etc. 

 

   


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[THIN] Re: Hardware - Blades, SAN?

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