[THIN] Re: Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the difference ?

From: "R. Mark Robinson" <mark.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Jeff Malczewski" <jmalczewski@xxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:48:22 -0400
I'd like to see the hack for decreasing the size of rdp packets...Does
it have to do with disabling virtual channels (or stripping them out)?
Does it work on 2k3 just as well?

-Mark=20

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jeff Malczewski
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:22 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the difference ?


Unfortunately, I am rather unfamiliar with the term "application
publishing"...

I'm not certain about 2003, but I do know that 2000 (base components)
does
not offer the ability to publish applications to a web page (ActiveX)
like
Citrix does..  It's just a strict desktop replacement.  Is this what you
were referring to?  Like I said before, with a combination of VBScript,
freeware tools (like TSCmd.exe), and GPO's, I have my environment almost
totally automated, and very, very problem free.  Users get the apps I
want
them to have, and ONLY the apps I want them to have.  Only once in two
years
(knock on wood) have I had a user figure a way around the way things
were
set up, and it was a stupid configuration mistake on my part that was
overlooked during the build process.

I have a few hundred machines running Windows 95 here, but I edited
sys.ini
so that instead of launching explorer.exe, it launched mstsc.exe as the
shell, so they go straight into terminal services (just like a WYSE
terminal) and the users didn't even realize what had happened.  I built
the
farm, installed everything, tested the hell out of it, and then over the
weekend I make the PC techs come in and reconfigure all the desktops.
Monday morning, everything was seamless, and away we went, and have
never
looked back.  That was over two years ago now.

With this strategy, myself and two other engineers got a 500 seat call
center going from pouring the concrete (no lie -- they were doing this
the
day we arrived to start building servers) to making the first calls in
18
days.  That site, however, is all WYSE terminals (much cheaper than a
PC,
and there was no old equipment to re-use).

One thing to watch out for -- because of the larger session size on the
wire
(48k for RDP vs. 16k for ICA) you're going to have network issues.  We
sure
did.  People look at me funny when I tell them I can realistically
handle up
to 110 simultaneous users per server on a dual P3 1133 with 4GB RAM and
100BaseT NICs..  I spent almost a solid week on the phone with Microsoft
PSS
before I finally got one of the guys on the phone who was a co-author of
the
Clustering MCSE exam, and he told me of a little trick to use to squeeze
more bandwidth.   If anyone is interested in this, let me know, and I'll
post the solution.  It's kind of long, and if no one wants to see it,
then..
lol



-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Patten [mailto:pattenj@xxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:09 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the difference ?



I'm actually in this debate right now.   We currently use MF 1.8 on our
NT4
servers, and I have been tasked with setting up the feasibility of going
with Straight 2003 Server without Citrix.  And I honestly don't think it
will go that well.   We currently have about 12 app servers offering a
variety of Apps, with a little over 1000 client workstations scattered
across the U.S. in hotels and businesses.  They run everything from
windows
95!  To WinXP pro.  I don't relish the idea of trying to convert them
all
from Citrix to the Remote desktop client.  I think we are best staying
with
citrix, if for nothing else, Application publishing, or does 2003 server
do
that and I am just missing it?

Jason


-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Rodrigues [mailto:crodrigues@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:03 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the difference?=20


Everyone does DNS Round Robin. They are just shy to admit in public what
they did. :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Ron Oglesby
Sent: May 21, 2004 12:52 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the
difference?=3D20


Ok, c'mon Claudio. DNS round robin!!!!!!

LOL. Just had to do that.

Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect
Microsoft MVP - Windows Server
=3D20
RapidApp, Chicago
Mobile 815 325-7618
Office 312 372-7188
e-mail roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx
=3D20

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Claudio Rodrigues
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:38 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the
difference?=3D20

Terminal Services can do load balancing. Windows 2003 has built-in NLB
on
Server. 2000 can do with Advanced Server. It is not resource based
though.
Depending on the environment (Ron will kill me after this sentence) you
can
even use DNS Round Robin - the
cheap-o-matic(tm) solution.
Or use WTSGateway or WTSGateway Pro.
Most people usually say Citrix has everything centralized, enterprise
features bla bla bla. My experience tells me that when you go to BIG
environments, they already have a tool to monitor resources (TNG,
Tivoli,
NetIQ, etc) that are 1000 times better than RMS (that is a piece of crap
and
like Wordstar 2000 was one of the few products in history that got 1000
worse on version 2.0 than on 1.0). For deploying apps and so on these
places
use something like Altiris, SMS etc, again, much better than IMS on
Citrix.
So at the end these big corporations pay for MetaFrame Xpe but at the
end
they would need Xpa only. So I tend to disagree Citrix has all the
corporate
things built-in. It has if you are a cheapo corporation. If you are
really
after the top stuff you will never use RMS/IMS. Can TS do everything
like
Citrix? Well depends on the environment. For small companies, for sure.
For
medium, it depends. That is why people like me, Ron and Brian have a
job.
:-)


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of John Van Gerpen
Sent: May 20, 2004 5:32 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the =
difference?=3D3D20


I administrate Windows 2000 network and Citrix Medaframe XP.  Looking at
CO$T$ and maintenance associated with Citrix I'm considering scrapping
Citrix and going with a Terminal services RDP environment. All my
clients
are WinXP and Wyse terminals (RDP).  The only down side I know is the
load
balancing Citrix can do, and Terminal services cannot.   What do you
think
the advantages and disadvantages are between RDP & ICA?=3D3D20
Is Terminal services as functional as Citrix?

Thanks in advance
 John.
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[THIN] Re: Citrix VS Terminal services, what's the difference ?

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