[TCUG] Re: Sector 8
- From: mervyn.hallworth@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:52:52 +0100
Dennis has pretty well summed up the situation as I see it.
Mervyn
Leeds 0113 2476750
"Beever, Dennis"
<dbeever@wakefie To: <tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
ld.gov.uk> cc:
Sent by: Subject: [TCUG] Re: Sector 8
tcug-bounce@free
lists.org
23/05/2005 16:48
Please respond
to tcug
I find myself in agreement with Ian.
If a highway Authority is carrying out a level of first line maintenance
then I can understand the argument that Sector 8 accreditation should
apply but for those of us that plug the handset in to check or change
parameters, it doesn't seem logical to have the highway authorities
credentials in scrutiny through this type of scheme, given that the
Highway Authority (in most cases I know of) specify the configuration of
the junction, test it and then test it again to make sure the Contractor
has done the job required?
Terry speaks of potentially disastrous consequences associated with
handset access. I quite agree. Setting inappropriate values for the
safe management of the conflicts carries perhaps the greatest potential
for harm. The parameters defining traffic management conflicts though,
have been determined by the Highway Authority in a bespoke solution.
Surely then it is up to the Highway Authority to define there own
quality managed procedures for this operational issue?
I do not believe the Sector scheme is designed to addresses the type of
operational risk Terry eludes to. The modules for assessment speak in
terms of controller familiarity, not the safe management of traffic
demand in the fit for purpose sense. I do not see therefore, that the
argument for accreditation stands.
Very similar risks are present when the UTC engineer develops and tests
a new fixed time UTC plan over a network. The engineer must ensure that
it is safe operationally before it can be accepted as perfuming in the
network management sense. Highway Authorities should have appropriate
mentoring and quality procedures in place to ensure a consistent, safe
methodology is adopted and documentation kept. Done poorly, an equally
apparent risk exists. This is not covered by Sector 8, probably because
Highway Authorities is the best repository of this knowledge. I
consider the same argument applies to the traffic controller they have
specified and tested.
Dennis Beever
Group Engineer UTMC
Wakefield MDC
-----Original Message-----
From: Wallis, Ian [mailto:Ian.Wallis@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 23 May 2005 13:54
To: 'tcug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [TCUG] Re: Sector 8
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please read Derby City Council's disclaimer and confidentiality
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While I agree with Terry, if this is to be the case then the Sector
scheme
needs to be made to address the needs of Local Authorities.
It is ridiculous that a Local Authority engineer who wants to plug a
handset
into a controller terminal should need the same "Equipment Access" level
of
training as someone who installs or maintains electrical equipment. If
we
wanted to go down this route maybe we should have made this clear at the
start so the scheme was relevant.
As it is, I (and obviously others) do not think the scheme is
appropriate so
we are arranging for alternative assessment to ensure we meet our
responsibilities to our contractors and our employees.
Ian Wallis
Derby City Council
-----Original Message-----
From: tcug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tcug-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Terry Gardner
Sent: 23 May 2005 13:38
To: 'TCUG'
Subject: [TCUG] Sector 8
It is interesting to read the various reactions to the arrival of Sector
8.
I believe we have to take the longer view. Once the scheme is fully
implemented it will not be long before procurement, installation and
term
maintenance contracts will be written to include for full accreditation,
just as happened when BS5750 first emerged. This should prove an
additional
assurance that companies wishing to provide signalling services are
suitably
qualified to provide those services, perhaps an end at long last to the
two
men and a van syndrome!
Once we go down this line then we have to look at expectations and
liabilities. For an LA which does not intend to involve themselves in
the
technicalities of their signalling, other than to issue instructions and
act
as an interested observer, then probably Sector 8 is not an issue. For
the
rest however, who may from time to time wish to open cabinets and change
timings etc then the question of liability does exist and a term
maintenance
organisation has every right to expect that client personnel are equally
accredited, because there could be an issue of responsibility and the
possibility of invalidating the contract.
I believe that the 'hands off' client needs to be aware of the Sector 8
requirements, although not necessarily involved, whereas the 'hand on'
group
needs to bite the bullet and ensure that all staff likely to be involved
are
properly accredited. I appreciate there is a cost implication and that
there
are many LAs who find it difficult to accept having rules and
regulations
imposed upon them, but I believe that accreditation by all parties is
going
to be for the greater future benefit of the traffic control environment
and
that we should pursue that course now.
Terry Gardner
Traffic Systems Engineer
Glamorgan Engineering Consultancy
Tel: 02920820683
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