[SI-LIST] Re: Controlled ESR capacitor

From: subeg singh sran <subegsran@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 20:49:31 -0700

It means engineer to design for margin. Leave nothing to if and buts
On Friday, August 24, 2018, Muranyi, Arpad <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That seems to imply that each board (of the same design) will
have a different placement for the capacitors...   :-)

Arpad
================================================

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Arumugham, Vinu
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 1:09 PM
To: CHARLES.GRASSO@xxxxxxxx; joel.brown@xxxxxxxxxx;
ken.patterson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: asparky@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 'Istvan Novak' <
istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx>; junichi.yamada.ak@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'SI-List' <
si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Controled ESR capacitor

Sprinkling is the lay term. In engineering it is called stochastic spacing
strategy.
________________________________________
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 10:30 AM
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ken.patterson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: asparky@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 'Istvan Novak';
junichi.yamada.ak@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'SI-List'
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Controled ESR capacitor

When did sprinkling become an engineering term?  Sounds very arbitrary to
me and it is.  Wouldn't change interplane resonances is any significant way.
Where did this idea come from?  Is there supporting data?

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Grasso, Charles
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 12:21 PM
To: joel.brown@xxxxxxxxxx; ken.patterson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Lee Ritchey <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
asparky@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Istvan Novak <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
junichi.yamada.ak@xxxxxxxxxxx; SI-List <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Controled ESR capacitor

I see two distinct applications. The low inductance application is for
energy delivery. The cap sprinkle (sorry Lee!) is to manage the interplane
resonances.

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Joel Brown
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 10:47 AM
To: ken.patterson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Lee Ritchey <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
asparky@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Istvan Novak <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
junichi.yamada.ak@xxxxxxxxxxx; SI-List <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Controled ESR capacitor

This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by:
si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

In the book I previously mentioned it clearly states the most important
aspect of a bypass cap is mounting inductance.
Adding a discrete resistor in series obviously adds a significant amount
of inductance.
But since the PDN impedeance would be flatter maybe the extra inductance
can be tolerated.
Would be interesting to see the trade offs between very low ESR with
lowest inductance and resistor in series with capacitor.

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:58 AM, Ken Patterson <
ken.patterson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You have to wear a mask as to not inhale them accidentally!
On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 11:56 AM <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I can't even see 0201s!

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Aubrey Sparkman
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 5:08 PM
To: leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx; junichi.yamada.ak@xxxxxxxxxxx;
si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Controled ESR capacitor

Discontinue 0402s for 0201s...

Consider using 0201s instead of 0402s if you are doing a redesign
due to caps.

Youre welcome!    :-)

Aubrey

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 22, 2018, at 11:29 AM, <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <

leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

We just got informed by our ceramic capacitor suppliers that they
were

discontinuing their 0603 sizes to focus on 0402 as that is where the

action

is with cell phones and tablets.  Going to make is redesign several
PCBs

to

the smaller size.

What next?

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Istvan Novak
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:30 PM
To: junichi.yamada.ak@xxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Controled ESR capacitor

Hi Yamada,

This appears to be part of a generic trend of component shortage
and

product cancellations: ceramic capacitor manufacturers are rerouting

their

existing production capabilities to higher-volume and more lucrative
applications.  Users over the many years have been very successful
demanding lower prices to the point that it has become financially
not viable to invest in new manufacturing capacity.  The interesting
twist is that people try to replace ceramic capacitors with other
types, for instance polymer capacitors, which tend to be more costly

then ceramics.

On a practical note: if you need an ohm of ESR, you can simply add a

series

one-ohm discrete resistor.  The added piece increases the
inductance, but with an ESR of an ohm, the impact tends to be small.
This of course wont help if you already have a product in volume
manufacturing with just the controlled-ESR footprint.

Regards,

Istvan Novak

On 8/21/2018 9:49 AM, Junichi Yamada wrote:
Hello experts
In my product, I use ESR controlled capacitor. (For example ESR >

1000

m) However, TDK decided to discontinue this product.
https://product.tdk.com/info/en/products/emc/emc/absorber/catalog
.htm
l

Please let me know if you know another capacitor with similar

characteristics.

* I know the Murata's LLR series. (However, there is the
possibility of discontinuing production as well.)
https://psearch.en.murata.com/capacitor/product/

LLR185C70G105ME07%23.

h
tml

Regards.
Yamada

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References:
- [SI-LIST] Re: Controlled ESR capacitor
  - From: Muranyi, Arpad

[SI-LIST] Re: Controlled ESR capacitor

Other related posts: