[rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
- From: CarlosMFreaza <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:27:36 -0300
Austin:
We had a similar discussion some years ago in the old RUG
and Eric also quoted the same or similar site and I read it by that
time, in practical photography I use the lens or the camera DOF
scales, they are good enough to me and also the DOF calculator that I
quoted and similars work very fine too, this is from the site
mentioned by Eric:
"It is well known that short focal length lenses have large apparent
depths of field and long telephoto lenses have small apparent depths
of field. _There are some very practical reasons for this conception_,
but it isn't quite true..." and then the theory starts, I take the
first part and get good results; if I'm in the middle of the wood and
have an unique opprtunity to take an image, I only have the Rollei
automatic DOF calculator or the lens DOF calculator for a quick
decision, they work to me as they are marked.
Carlos
2009/11/10, Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> What you're not doing when you use your DOF calculators, is adjusting the
> distance to maintain the same relative image size. That's the point you
> seem to be missing..."same relative image size".
>
> I suggest you read the references Eric so kindly provided. Start by looking
> at the chart titled "DOF for f/8, M ~= 1/20, 35mm format" at the bottom of
> this section:
>
> http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html#DOF_focal_length
>
> It shows total DOF for same aperture, different focal lengths, with distance
> adjusted to provide the same relative image size. Note the total DOFs are
> nearly identical for all lenses at the same aperture. Then, ask your self
> why... If you need help understanding that, perhaps someone here would be
> willing to help. But, please read the references first.
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:50 AM
> > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
> >
> >
> > Yes Austin, I know that the calculator is correct, what's the point?
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> > 2009/11/10, Austin Franklin <austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > > Hi Carlos,
> > >
> > > The calculator is correct. You're either missing the point, or an
> > > understanding of the point. I must admit, I'm a bit surprised.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Austin
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of CarlosMFreaza
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:36 AM
> > > > To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eric, I showed you a real DOF calculator for the real photographic
> > > > world that I have used a lot of times with constant results for
> > > > photographs that I can also show, this the practice of photography, be
> > > > happy with your theories.
> > > >
> > > > Carlos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2009/11/10, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx>:
> > > > > Read and learn, Carlos:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF6.html#DOF_focal_length
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dof2.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric Goldstein
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:59 AM, CarlosMFreaza
> > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > I'm afraid you are wrong Eric, DOF is purely a function
> > of aperture
> > > > > > for a given lens (and given frame size), but if the lens
> > focal length
> > > > > > changes the DOF also changes if keeping constant f stop
> > and circle of
> > > > > > confusion size . You could play with this DOF calculator
> > changing only
> > > > > > the lens focal length and you'll see the way the real DOF
> > area also
> > > > > > changes:
> > > > > > http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
> > > > > > Carlos
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2009/11/10, Eric Goldstein <egoldste@xxxxxxxxx>:
> > > > > >> It can be argued that DOF is purely a function of aperture
> > > > and not FL.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Eric Goldstein
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:32 AM, CarlosMFreaza
> > > > <cmfreaza@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > >> > Well, "any" camera is a term general too much. DOF has
> > to do first
> > > > > >> > with the lens focal length and the frame size and the circle of
> > > > > >> > confusion size you consider acceptable and second with the
> > > > f stop; you
> > > > > >> > could stop down a 300mm lens for a 6x9 format at f11
> > or 16 (to say
> > > > > >> > something) and you could still have more deeper DOF with
> > > > the Rollei 35
> > > > > >> > at f3.5, my point was that the Rollei 35 Tessar has a
> > > > reasonable DOF
> > > > > >> > and sharpness even wide open if you focus close to your desired
> > > > > >> > focusing point, in other words, it is not necessary a
> > > > telemeter under
> > > > > >> > these conditions, perhaps this was not the topic central
> > > > axis but it
> > > > > >> > has to do with some messages I read in the thread.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > BTW, the "universal" camera does not exist yet, if you
> > know your
> > > > > >> > tools, you also know where and why to use them.-
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Carlos
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > 2009/11/10, Marvin <marvin0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > > > > >> >> I think you missed the point Carlos, it's possible to
> > > > stop the lens down and
> > > > > >> >> have a large depth of field with just about any camera,
> > > > but that doesn't
> > > > > >> >> afford the individual much control. That's the problem
> > > > with the 35.
> > > > > >> >> Marvin.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> >> From: rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >> >> [mailto:rollei_list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > > > CarlosMFreaza
> > > > > >> >> Sent: 10 November 2009 17:01
> > > > > >> >> To: rollei_list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex 35mm Cameras
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I rarely had problems guessing the distance with the
> > > > Rollei 35, these
> > > > > >> >> two samples were taken during a travel, with the Tessar
> > > > wide open, 3,5
> > > > > >> >> 1/30 shutter speed and camera hand-held, the film was a
> > > > Kodak Ultra
> > > > > >> >> 400. The DOF is still deep at f 3.5 and the camera light
> > > > meter worked
> > > > > >> >> right.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/1433112977/
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/itarfoto/1456649900/
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> Carlos
> > > > > >> >> ---
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