I think this is an important discussion and hope we can engage constructively without a language flame war. My thoughts are as follows. I agree that the indentation requirement of Python is enough of a problem to be a challenge worth sparing a blind beginner to programming. If it were a minor inconvenience, then I think the value of learning to format for sighted users of one's code may be justified. The problem,however, affects both writing and reading code with speech output (not necessarily braille), in both efficiency and reliability aspects. I have tried to make EdSharp and TextPal make the problem more manageable, but they cannot automatically indent code that was not indented originally because the indentation, itself, conveys meaning that often cannot be known otherwise. Between Python and Ruby for a beginner, I recommend Ruby. It has an interactive shell that is even more speech friendly than Python's. Indentation is optional, not required, and automatic code formatters are available. An excellent tutorial that teaches programming through Ruby is available at the following web page: "Learn to Program" http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/ Jamal __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind