Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
- From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:54:07 -0800
alright, smile don't forget about the fruit basket demo site (see URL under my
name) and its numerous examples of the assorted languages out there to work in.
regards,
inthane
• For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links to
Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
• to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Arnold Bailey
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
Hi all,
Jared had my intentions right. I only meant to use it as a very basic tool
for interactive use to show a first time middle schooler what a program is. It
is the interactive use that is a plus. My scenario doesn't require indentation,
etc. After that first session I am using Java.
Arnold
On Nov 12, 2007 5:19 AM, Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
To force is not a good thing, no matter if it is the indentation, or
defining variables, or limiting variables to hold only some types of data,
because a language that does that is not flexible.
(Of course that all the non-flexible languages that don't allow too many
ways to do the same thing are prefered by teachers, but this doesn't mean
that they are the best for everything).
Why a blind programmer should be forced to indent the code? The indentation
is a good way of organizing a code visually, but for someone who cannot
see,
the visual organization is not important at all, and forcing a blind
programmer to indent the code would just make him be less productive because
he should take care about things which are not important for him.
A blind programmer should indent the code only if that code is shared with
other sighted users, but this is not the case always.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jared Wright" <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
> I've not dabbled in Python yet. With that disclaimer ut of the way, isn't
> this possibly an argument in favor of Python being used as an
> introduction? I did all the programming I've done up until a couple months
> ago (when I started my first course on it) completely on my own and self
> taught. One of the hardest things for me to adjust to is formatting
> properly for sighted readers. My screen reader cared little about white
> space, and the compiler cared even less. So remembering to format code
> properly this semester has cost me as much as real programming has. I very
> much wish the programmer's elements of style were conveyed to me more
> forcefully early on, and I wonder if this might not just be a feather in
> Python's cap. Now, as I said, I've not got around to exploring Python, and
> if it uses indentation rules that vary from the ones that people would
> typically like to see in other common languages, then I stand corrected.
> But taken completely on its own, the fact that Python requires indentation
> hardly seems like it should disqualify it from being a good starting
> point. The fact that indentation is something that a blind programmer
> could so easily overlook makes me think that forcing it to be done
> correctly in the early stages wouldn't be such a bad thing.
>
> *shrug*
> A different prospective.
>
> JW
>
> Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>> Unfortunately Python is one of the most blind-unfriendly languages
>> because of its requirement for indentation, so I don't think a blind
>> person should start programming with python, because she or he might
>> think that the indentation is important for all the languages.
>> Octavian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Arnold Bailey <mailto: arnoldbail@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *To:* programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2007 1:27 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> I have also been looking into the same issue. If you look at my
>> website http://www.blind411.org/ITCareers/ under teachers"->course
>> plans, I am building a series of course sessions. These are being
>> presented to blind and visually impaired middle and high school
>> students in our school district. In my approach I will:
>>
>> 1. Introduce Information Technology as a career. You'll see the
>> presentation link.
>> 2. I decided on Python to introduce the concept of programming. It
>> is an interpretive and can be executed interactively. This allows
>> hands on and experience the results immediately. Also, the IDLE
>> (GUI) interface seems to be better for the visually impaired
>> because of the font; and, the command line interface is needed for
>> Jaws for the blind students. You'll see a link to my scenario.
>> Downloading and installing python is easy. You'll see the link
>> there also.
>> 3. My next plan is to teach Java to any of the students who feel
>> like trying programming. I picked Java because it is widely taught
>> in colleges as an introduction to compsci. It is also C like and
>> it is object oriented. If you click in the nav links on learning
>> Java, you see the links to install it and some tutorials.
>>
>> The site is intended for student instruction. The references and
>> links were largely gotten through this mailing list by a lot of
>> generous and knowledgeable programmers. I kept
>> references/tutorials/etc. to a minimum because there is way too
>> much information out there. Sometimes focus is needed.
>>
>> I have many years of programming experience in more languages than
>> I care to admit. I have only a minimal cursory knowledge of Java;
>> but, when I start instruction, I'll read up on the Java tutorials.
>> I planned to instruct via email/skype and the online tutorials;
>> but, I haven't gotten to that point yet. In a couple months, I
>> should be ready.
>>
>> Contact me via email if I can help in any way.
>>
>> Arnold
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2007 4:10 PM, inthaneelf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto: inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> I don't totally agree with the statement about learning jaws
>> scripting to
>> learn programming, but the rest of those recommendations work.
>> more on this
>> though, is what programming instructional classes (both in
>> there high
>> school, and outside/after)are available in there area.
>>
>> if any or all the basic languages are readily available, then
>> what does he
>> wish to program, as we all know, the language should be based
>> on his
>> learning style, and what he wishes to do, anywhere from visual
>> basic.net <http://basic.net > and
>> C#, to java, to C and C++ or raw assembler are available to
>> him, along with
>> html, xhtml, xml, asp.net < http://asp.net> incorporated with
>> C# or VB, PHP, and the rest of
>> that group.
>>
>> so, I'd say that the main question is what does this student
>> wish to do,
>> then they can go from there!
>>
>> if you want, give the person that contacted you my E mail and
>> I'd be more
>> than willing to talk with them at length on what can be done,
>> and since I am
>> an information monger, and not much of a programmer, but do
>> have some
>> knowledge in programming, I think... I'm not as set in stone
>> as to a
>> particular language or learning method, so may be able to
>> tackle it with a
>> bit more "All around lack of preference".
>>
>> HTH,
>> Inthane
>> • For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful
>> Programs, and Links
>> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications,
>> visit me at:
>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>> • to be able to view a simple programming project in several
>> programming
>> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
>> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto: joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 7:50 AM
>> Subject: RE: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the
Blind
>>
>>
>> > Hi there,
>> > I would presonally recommend this student to:
>> > * Subscribe to number of mailing list such as Blind
>> Programming list.
>> > * Search on Google for tutorials on basic programming.
>> > * Take online AP Computer Science course to learn about
>> Java, object
>> > oriented programming, etc.
>> > The best way to start in programming would be learning about
>> JAWS scripts.
>> > This should allow a student to learn how JAWS actually
>> works, under what a
>> > variable, function and other things in programming mean and
>> to learn how
>> > to
>> > interpret script languages. Then I would recommend this
>> person to study C
>> > or
>> > Java. Or, if the student is interested, he can learn HTML to
>> code
>> > websites.
>> > Cheers,
>> > Joseph P.S. I'm also a high school student so I understand
>> Wilkins'
>> > situation.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >
>> > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of
>> Chris
>> > Hofstader
>> > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 7:38 AM
>> > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Subject: FW: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the
>> Blind
>> >
>> > Can people here help this person?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Anya Kogan [mailto: akogan3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:akogan3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:47 PM
>> > To: Chris.Hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Chris.Hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Subject: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
>> >
>> > Hi Chris,
>> >
>> > I am a graduate student at the Georgia Institute of
>> Technology and also a
>> > new volunteer at the Center for the Visually Impaired in
>> Atlanta. I
>> > assist
>> > in teaching the computer class there to blind and visually
>> impaired
>> > students. I am sighted myself and very new to the
>> challenges of being
>> > visually impaired. One of my students is a blind
>> high-school age boy
>> > named
>> > Wilkens. Wilkens is very proficient in the computer basics
>> using Jaws.
>> > He
>> > very quickly and easily surfs the net, types on Microsoft
>> Word and uses
>> > Microsoft Excel. He has now expressed interest in learning
>> to program. I
>> > am very new to programming myself, but would be willing to
>> learn.
>> > However,
>> > how can I teach or at least assist a blind young man to
>> program? I am not
>> > even sure where to begin. Can you recommend any resources
>> or lend
>> > any advice on this topic? Do you know of any online tutorials?
>> > Courses? What language should he start with? Is there a
>> first project
>> > that
>> > would benefit him? Any help that you can lend me would be most
>> > appreciated.
>> > Wilkens has a lot of drive and I would hate to have that go
>> to waste.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Anya
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ NOD32 2610 (20071023) Information __________
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>> > 3:47 PM
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>> > __________
>> > View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Arnold
>> http://www.blind411.org
>> http://www.blind411.org/ITCareers/
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
--
Arnold
http://www.blind411.org
http://www.blind411.org/ITCareers/
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