Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
- From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:33:08 -0800
an add on to this, I learned VB in a college course, with jaws being my only
adaptation, and it was before MS got quite as into accessibility as they are
now. started with VB 5 in a college course and finished the class with the
rest of the students, and got an A in the course due to my instructor liking
the fact that I was creative with my projects, altering them just enough to
make them something useful to me, but not so much that they ran outside the
criteria of the projects scope.
HTH,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links to
Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Perry
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
Well if your choosing quick and easy to use then Mingw is just as quick to
install and just as easy being that you use notepad to edit simple files. The
one thing it doesn't have is an interpreter. Unless you go get one like CINT
which makes learning C or c++ just as fun as learning python because you run
things as you write them in an interpreted way. Then you can compile it after
words using Mingw.
Ruby is just as easy as python and the syntax is much better.
As for that stupid comment by the person in NFB. Programming is for any
blind student actually interested in programming. The same as it is for sited
folks. You can't teach a rock to fly but if you put enough force behind it it
can knock a bird out of the air. Personal Drive is the food brains grow from.
If the kid doesn't want to learn to code he or she won't no matter the
disability or ability.
We the blind sometimes have a better chance at learning more about our
computers than our sited counter part because our computers are more a part of
our lives. We use them for everything from reading to interacting with others
so in that sense we have a better chance to be able to understand coding. The
fact that we are blind doesn't mean we have to be a genius to learn to code but
it does mean we will have to initially work a lot harder than our sited counter
parts. After a few classes though most blind students find out they know much
more than their sited counter parts because they had to learn more with out the
benefit of some GUI tools that make coding easier for sited people. Natural
ability is something that improves anyone's ability to learn a new thing but I
truly believe if you have an average IQ and want something bad enough you can
take down those Mensa nuts every time.
Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Arnold Bailey
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:20 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
Hi all,
I chose python because it was quick and easy to istal and use. I will look
into ruby though. My thoughts of Java was for high schol students, because when
they get to college, it will be Java initially. From Java, C++ can easily be
learned. But, I agree 100% on the procedural compiler for those not ready to
learn OO. Basic does even make sense because that is what my older son learned
at 7 on TI computer. Would Visual Basic or Ruby be advised for the "tweeners"?
Also, I'm a member of the NFB and this is our local initiative. Mentoring is
part of this; but, it's just the beginning. I was told by an unnamed person
high up in the NFB that programming for the blind/VI is only for the
"intelligent" kids. I'm trying to prove that the issue isn't intelligence. It's
more support and opportunity. But, that's another issue.
Arnold
On Nov 12, 2007 11:27 AM, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Grin you should try Small talk. You can't do anything in small talk with
out an object but the language gives you so many objects to start its like
an object heaven. The problem is I have only found really one small talk
IDE that is accessible some what and until it has better scripts it is still
difficult to do stuff in. I was able to write some basic programs in it and
if your an OO thinking person Small talk will just turn your crank.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:29 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to Program for the Blind
Hi Vili,
I come from a procedural background. I started with COBOL. I have made
several fits and starts at other languages. I have not yet found a way to
get over the OO learning curve. One reason is that I have not found a
project that really interests me. The other is that the books I am reading
teach the procedural side of languages like Python and then move into OO.
It seems like I would need to come up with a relatively big project to make
it worth doing in OO. I keep saying to myself that whatever I am thinking
of
doing at the time is easier to do procedurally. I never find a compelling
enough reason to do OO. I read about how great it is in the programming
material I look at, but some how, that never translates into my learning
because I get intimidated by all the setting up of all the objects just to
get something simple done. There has to be some middle ground in all of this
somewhere.
Finally, I don't know enough to be able to tell if whatever project I am
thinking of doing is best to do in procedural or OO.
And one more thing while I'm rambling. It seems like OO really doesn't model
the real world even though the OO material I have read to this point says
it
does. I should probably save that for another email though.
Thanks.
Jim
James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx , 412-544-1810
"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change the
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
"Veli-Pekka
Tätilä"
<vtatila@xxxxxxxx To
dent.oulu.fi > programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent by: cc
programmingblind-
bounce@freelists. Subject
org Re: BlindConfidential: Learning to
Program for the Blind
11/12/2007 09:14
AM
Please respond to
programmingblind@
freelists.org
Hi Arnold,
I'm not sure Java might be the best start, either, although it is widely
popular. In our Uni in Finland Java is used mostly procedurally and there's
a separate course on object oriented programming, also in Java.
The authors of how to Think like a Computer Scientist, the PYthon edition.
argue that one of the strong points of multi-paradigm langs is that you
don't have to cover objects first. They clame it is hard to teach object
first, since to really understand them one needs knowledge of variables and
scope, functions, operators, parameters and all the OO jargon for relatively
non-magical things. WIth a multi paradigm language hello world is just like:
puts "hello world"
Or something like that, and you can start with very simple procedural
concepts, and cover functions, objects etc... when people are ready to tacle
them. I still recall trying to understand OOp from a procedural background
and all this talk of objects sending messages to each other and having
contracts just threw me off. But statements like basic objects are just like
structs with syntactic sugar for calling functions taking structs, and no
direct access to struct members allowed, are closer to a procedural
programmer mind set, and are more descriptive, too. There's even a book
about object oriented programming in c, though I wouldn't start with C.
Perl's object orientation heavily relies on procedural concepts and
references, too, but Perl is a bit too specialized to start with I'd say
e.g. no separate float, string and int handling, plus abnormally strong
string processing in the core. I'd start out with a conventional,
statically
and strongly typed language at any case, since it is, in my view, easier to
see some advantages of both static and dynamic typing, if you have learned
static typing first. but that's just my experience, I'm just a student.
--
With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila
Arnold Bailey wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Jared had my intentions right. I only meant to use it as a very basic
>tool for interactive use to show a first time middle schooler what a
>program
is.
>It is the interactive use that is a plus. My scenario doesn't require
>indentation, etc. After that first session I am using Java.
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--
Arnold
http://www.blind411.org
http://www.blind411.org/ITCareers/
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