Yes, i also prefer to try to learn from problems and by fixing instead of reinstalling everything. If you post here http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?s=6ddd128e5fb95207a1d74a1b17575cda&showforum=32 i'm sure you'll get a very friendly and competent answer and solution soon. But you sound like you have enough experience to find the culprit yourself. According to your answer to Ed's questions, you should be able to delete the trojan simply by turning off System Restore, because that's where you say it is. When you turn System Restore off correctly, it deletes that folder. But the trojan is probably elsewhere too. Did you turn off System Restore *and* then immediately restart Windows in safe mode *and* run AVG? If you did all that and AVG can't kill it, that would be the first case i've seen of AVG not working correctly, especially since it found the trojan. Try downloading a different antivirus program. This would really interest me and probably you and many others if another program would handle this pest better than AVG. Have you tried following these directions?: www.nohack.net/detection.htm I just sent an email to the TDS-3 people. It definitely does not say that the program will only detect and not delete during the 30-day trial period. If it doesn't delete, you can't see if and how it works. That is a scam not used by trustworthy companies. Ek Billyus Eximius kirjoitti: > Well I considered this too, in fact someone I know who repairs systems for > businesses, told me only today, they had one yesterday and in the end, he > did just that, much quicker. However, I try to learn from all problems, and > I know how to format, so I'll plod on a while yet *S* > > Billy -------list-services-below----------- Regards, John Durham (list moderator) <http://modecideas.com/contact.html?sig> Freelists login at //www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/lsg2.cgi List archives at //www.freelists.org/archives/pchelpers PC-HELPERS list subscribe/unsub at http://modecideas.com/discuss.htm?sig Latest news live feeds at http://modecideas.com/indexhomenews.htm?sig Good advice is like good paint- it only works if applied.