[lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:42:54 -0800
Very well, let's examine what you've said. You make a reference to some
past conversation, but provide no detail. You say I said something to the
effect that I had knowledge of how people on the Left think. Well, yes I
was on the Left myself for many years, read an enormous amount on the
subject and had friends who were Leftists. That is more than a presumption
but a statement of some of the facts from my personal history. Then you
say, "Many times, I, and others, have picked up this and challenged you.
Each time you brushed it off as unimportant . . . "
Hmmm. You say you challenged something in my personal history. Well, that
doesn't make any sense. Why would you do that? I'm afraid I don't know
what you're talking about.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:31 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
[This is the third attempt for this post. This time I've cut the length]
[I sent this reply a couple of hours ago, but it seems to have become lost
in the ether. I expect the original will turn up a few minutes after this
one.]
Lawrence,
Since you appear to have made an effort, let me try again.
Many times over the past year or so you have presumed to have had knowledge
of how people on the left think, knowledge of their beliefs. Many times, I,
and others, have picked up on this and challenged you. Each time you brushed
it off as unimportant, illogical. I've heard you say that such assertions
are beyond argument. In case you haven't realised it, this approach annoys
people.
Now today you complain to Jeorg:
"You make up things and impose them on me as though I must believe what you
say I believe."
For this reason I called you a hypocrite.
Is that really so difficult to understand?
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
No, I really don't, Simon, and you caught me in a serious mood today; so
I'll elaborate. I do have a serious problem "debating" people who flout the
rules of logic, and you admittedly fall in that category. Something is an
argument supported by appropriate premises or it is a mere assertion.
Perhaps you don't realize it, but I occasionally try to imagine premises
that might support your assertions, that is, might turn them into legitimate
arguments that I could therefore respond to, but you grow impatient with
such attempts and your assertions seem but a short step from insult and so I
abandon you as I have many times before. You are not unique. I have the
same sorts of problems with Irene & Andreas. And so you inevitably lose
your collective or individual tempers and swear and insult much as Joerg
recently did. Perhaps if I knew him a little better I wouldn't have been so
quick to take offense. I no longer take offense at you, Irene or Andreas;
which doesn't mean that I want to continue listening to your insults after
you give up all pretense of dialogue. I'll at least settle for the
pretence, usually, as witness the present note.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:24 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
If you've no idea why I say you are hypocritical, then what's the use. But
just in case, read carefully the sentences I quoted, then try and think back
to mine and other complaints about what you've been saying about 'leftists'.
It's really not that difficult.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm
To: Lit-Ideas <mailto:Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
Simon,
Or perhaps you mean the bizarre and insulting suggestion that you be
logical. I will take responsibility for that. Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima
Culpa!
Lawrence
_____
From: Lawrence Helm [mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:23 AM
To: 'lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: RE: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
Do you mean the things Sigmund Helmenfreud said to you? He shall have to
answer for himself. I don't speak for him. Don't get us confused.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:47 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
Lawrence: "You say bizarre insulting things that don't relate to anything
I've said or believe. You make up things and impose them on me as though I
must believe what you say I believe."
Hypocrite!
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