[lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:44:39 -0800
Well, see, because my notes as long as they are aren?t books, there is
always room to describe something I haven?t addressed in an individual note.
I?ve had occasion to read about Saddam Hussein a lot, and he was, apologies
to the Saddam lovers, a world class menace. As to his association with the
Islamists, he wanted to use them. He began sounding like them in his
speeches. He had never given up the idea of a Pan-Arabic super nation under
his control and he was anxious to use military means to achieve his goals.
Now you guys who don?t like or defend Saddam Hussein are back to defending
him.
As to barbarism, my reading of history indicates that the barbarians over
run the cities when the city folk lose the ability to defend themselves ?
not when the city folks are outside the city quelling threats.
Oh one more thing, Sayyid Qutb said you don?t really believe, that is, you
aren?t really a genuine believer, unless you are engaged in Jihad. Yeah it
would be great if they could believe in Islamism in the same way Christians
believe in Christianity, but their preachers are telling them to go out and
kill infidels if they are really serious about their religion, and if they
really want to reach paradise. Our preachers, most of them, don?t even ask
us to witness anymore.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Mike Geary
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:26 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
LH:
>>There really is an ideology variously called Islamism, Islamic
>>Fundamentalism and a few other things. It really was firmed up by Sayyid
>>Qutb and it has swept the Middle East.<<
I agree with you, Lawrence. Copy that sentence and frame it! And, of
course, you recognize that people have the same right to believe in Islamism
as in Christian Evangelism and in Islamic Fudamentalism as in Christian
Fundamentalism. Belief is no crime. Only acts are crimes. Only those who
commit crimes are our enemy, not those who cheer on the criminals (I cheer
on bank robbers), or wish they were themselves criminals, only the people
who commit crimes are criminals. It makes the world more complicated, I
agree. But it separates us from the barbarism of people like Saddam Hussein
who would kill not just those who tried to assassinate him, but all his
family as well.
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:00 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
You are doing it again, Irene. People attacked us and it somehow in your
Leftist mind becomes our fault. It is such an automatic reaction that you
probably don't even realize you are doing it. It is America's fault, Helm's
fault - "Oh come on Lawrence."
. You want to get upset because Bush didn't come up with a better term in
the beginning? I already conceded that. Let's move on.
You say "the fact is" and then you provide one reason for the invasion of
Iraq. That's a rather naïve approach to decisions about this, don't you
think? There were a number of reasons for this invasion. Read some of the
many reasons in the Clinton appointee's Kenneth Pollack's The Threatening
Storm.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:37 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
Oh, come on Lawrence. The whole thing is word game. We went from War on
Terror to the Long War. At the same thing we didn't and still don't know a
Sunni from Shia in almost all of Washington. Please, it's all bellicose
nonsense. The fact is, we beat up Iraq to teach somebody else a lesson.
One would think that first one plays catch up, then one goes to war. We
did in reverse. If it weren't so tragic, it would be downright funny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Helm
Sent: Jan 13, 2007 12:21 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
If you want to play word games and blame the lack of a definitive coherent
Militant Islamic definition on us, that may make you feel good, but it won't
get you very close to understanding. We didn't make the Middle East up. It
is what it is. We are just playing catch up trying to understand it - some
of us and deal with that part of it that comprises a threat.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:05 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Strident Voice of Defeat
We took out Iraq to teach the 9/11'ers a lesson. That's pretty rogue.
Well, maybe botched rogue, a subcategory of rogue. See, if we didn't botch
the job it wouldn't matter that Saddam had no WMD and no ties to al Qaeda.
But, we did botch the job. Now Iran is a rogue nation. Is that better or
worse than being a botched rogue nation?
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