Eric wrote: "To follow your non-serious strategy ..." I am not sure how my 'strategy' is non-serious. I am interested in the role religion plays in liberal democracies. I was interested in Walter's post where he suggested, in a semi-serious fashion, that the Canadian government should make clear to new immigrants some of the limits Canada puts on religious beliefs. I responded, in a serious manner, that it would be more consistent if the government ignored the religious beliefs of immigrants but rather made clear that all people in Canada are expected to obey the laws of the land. I argued, humorlessly, that in liberal democracies, governments should be blind to religious beliefs but see only the general good and the manner in which laws contribute to this good. In that same post, I pointed out the problematic nature of the French ban on the niqab, in that the French government seems to be involving itself in the religious beliefs of Muslims. In a decidedly non-serious reply, Eric commented on how costumes and disguises can become a threat to the public safety, suggesting that the niqab could be used to conceal a bomb. This possibility leads Eric to the conclusion that women who wear the niqab might not be quite sane. I replied, seriously, that there is a difference between wearing the niqab as a costume and wearing it from religious beliefs. I also pointed out that while some costumes include dangerous weapons, such as a Zorro costume, a niqab is only a piece of cloth and I don't see how that is a danger to anyone. It is possible that what Eric means is that the danger of the niqab lies in it being used to conceal something dangerous. However, the idea that using a niqab in N. America to conceal a bomb is a non-serious one considering how conspicuous such an individual would be. How many women wear the niqab in the U.S.? I doubt the number is more than a thousand. And how much attention would the niqab attract in public given the paranoia some Americans are now exhibiting towards anything Muslim? Surely, if one wanted to deliver a bomb, a winter coat or over-sized sports jersey would effectively conceal the device and be inconspicuous. If the issue Eric is raising is one of stopping people from concealing bombs on their persons, then it would make more sense to focus on people who wear over-sized clothing like winter coats and sports jerseys. But I would like to return to the issue of the relationship of religion to government. It seems to me obvious that a law banning the wearing of the niqab is directed at religious beliefs. If the issue is one of public security then the law would prohibit any clothing or accessories that could conceal a bomb or conceal one's identity. That is, a legitimate law would apply to any citizen rather than a specific group. The fact that Muslim women are specifically identified by, for example, the proposed French law, reduces the legitimacy of the law as a law. Furthermore, the fact that a minority are singled out by virtue of their religious beliefs puts into question the nature of that democratic system. The virtue of a liberal democracy lies in the commitment to allowing individuals the liberty to pursue their own visions of the good. It is understood that sometimes individual pursuits of the good may infringe on the pursuits of others, and so it is necessary to have laws that fairly constrain all individuals in order to allow for the maximum amount of liberty. For this reason, most liberal democracies avoid giving advantage or disadvantage to particular religions, insofar as religions represent particular pursuits of the good. Where the government has a legitimate role is when religious beliefs unreasonably interfere in the lives of others. However, in order to maintain fairness, religions are restricted, not on the basis of their religious beliefs, but rather according to general laws. So, returning to Walter's post, people in Canada are not allowed to kill, must identity themselves in order to drive, and must wear helmets when driving a motorcycle. These laws do not consider why some people might kill, refuse to identify themselves or refuse to wear a helmet, but rather they give general constraints on all people in Canada in order to maximize the liberty of all people. A law that constrains only a specific group for the sake of others cannot be considered a legitimate law. For this reason, I think that the proposed French law, and any law that aims to punish Muslim women for wearing the niqab, lacks legitimacy. Having said this, I would like to distinguish between the issue of laws restricting the wearing of the niqab and the issue of wearing the niqab. While I am opposed to any law that singles out Muslim women, I also believe that there are good reasons for arguing against the use of the niqab. I just recently returned from Iran, where I was participating in a conference. One of the speakers, a former Speaker of the Parliament, informed us that all Iranian women love to wear the hijab. This is humorous for several reasons, including that it is the law so women don't have a choice and Iranian women don't even wait till the doors of the departing airplane are closed before they take their hijabs off. It is this disconnect between how religious authorities see the practice of covering and how the covering is ordinarily practiced that suggests a problem. It may be illiberal to ban the niqab, but I do think it is very much in the spirit of liberal democracies to argue that the Islamic practice of covering is socially unacceptable. Sincerely, Phil Enns Indonesia ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html