Eric wrote: "Consider my previous post, which expresses the view that the niqab is not a token of mainstream religious belief among Muslims, but an emblem of Wahabbi propaganda." I agree that the niqab is not part of mainstream Islam. I teach at an Islamic university and female students are not allowed to wear the niqab. They have to wear the hijab, but the niqab is forbidden. In my three years in Indonesia, the country with the largest Muslim population in the world, I have seen maybe a dozen women wearing the niqab. Eric: "it is hard to create a non-Muslim thought experiment with which to test this fairness principle." My interest lies in how democratic states might best respond to Muslim women who choose to wear the niqab. The mere fact that a majority of people strongly object to this practice does not make a law proscribing the practice legitimate. This would be the tyranny of the majority, which most liberal democracies guard against through a constitution and rule of law. One might cite security issues but these issues properly concern the religious beliefs of people who support the wearing of the niqab rather than the niqab itself. So, most countries would not consider a ban on trench coats even though these coats have been used in the course of committing numerous crimes. The niqab is not itself a security threat in the same way that a trench coat is not. Instead, for many people, the niqab is so closely associated with Islamic extremism that banning the niqab becomes a proxy for banning Islamic extremism. This becomes clear when people who favour the ban tend to focus on the kinds of people who would engage in this practice, rather than the thing itself. The issue, then, is not the niqab itself, but rather the kinds of religious beliefs that may lead to adopting the niqab and using it for terrorist purposes. It is at this point that I would raise the question of whether liberal democracies should punish people on the basis of there being the mere possibility that their beliefs may lead to acts of terror? Here we approach something like the Cheney doctrine, or the 1% doctrine, which can be paraphrased as 'If there is a 1% chance that radical Muslims will use the wearing of the niqab to engage in acts of terror, then the government should treat it as a certainty in terms of its response. It's not about analysis, but about the government's response.' In other words, if it is even remotely possible that Muslim extremists could use the niqab as part of a terror attack, then governments should act as though it were a certainty and ban the wearing of the niqab. The problem with this approach, though, is that it undermines the rule of law. The rule of law requires analysis, requires a process of evaluating evidence and reaching a threshold of being convinced. The Cheney doctrine ultimately undermines liberal democracy since it establishes the right of government to act without accountability, that is, without analysis. However, if we are focused on security, I think the better approach lies in the pragmatic argument that a response without analysis is far less effective. The process of evaluation and argumentation is an effective method for approaching the truth. Therefore, a response that lacks such analysis is far less likely to be successful. The Iraq war being an unfortunately good example of this. Returning to the issue of this thread, is the ban on the niqab actually an effective tool for establishing security? In terms of reducing the threat of specific terrorist attacks, is France safer if it bans the niqab? I think the answer is fairly clear: no it is not. If this is accurate, then the answer must be that it is not legitimate for liberal democracies to use the rationale of security to punish Muslims for wearing the niqab. As I said earlier, my interest lies primarily in the question of how liberal democracies should respond to religious beliefs. My argument is that the most effective government would be one that virtually ignores religious beliefs but rather focuses on the rule of law. This focus on the rule of law not only maximizes freedom and fairness for all, but also maximizes the security and safety of all. This may sound counter-intuitive to those who demand action, but the basis of the rule of law, with its emphasis on argumentation and the evaluation of reasons and facts, is a more reliable guide to the truth. Since governments in liberal democracies have no legitimate reason to involve themselves in deciding what religious practices people should or should not engage in, and the concern for security should be based on the analysis of facts and evidence of threats rather than the mere need for response, it seems to me that there are no legitimate grounds for a liberal democratic state to ban the practice of wearing the niqab. Sincerely, Phil Enns Indonesia ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html