Eric wrote: "The Cheney Doctrine concerns loose nukes or loose bioweapons, where the destructive potential of their use -- even at 1 percent chance -- is civilization-ending, and consequently an unacceptable risk. Not entirely apropos." What I said with regards to the security argument in support of banning the niqab: "Here we approach something like the Cheney doctrine". First, with an analogy, the fact that the two things being compared are not exactly alike is not an argument against the analogy. The whole point of an analogy is that the two are different with some aspect of similarity. So, Eric is right that the Cheney Doctrine was offered in the context of a discussion on nuclear and biological weapons. My argument turns however on what I perceive to be a similarity, namely, the claim that the possibility of a future security threat is best dealt with by a present day response rather than by analysis. But, if I may be presumptuous, Eric might argue that the similarity works only if the threat is to scale. There is, Eric might argue, an important difference between the threat of a suicide bomber with an explosive vest under a niqab and a rogue country or terrorist organization with nukes. However, I think this imagined response misses the point. As I claimed before, the rhetoric surrounding the push for a ban is not focused on the niqab as a delivery system for an explosive vest, but rather it is focused on the religious extremism for which the niqab is the proxy. In this respect, the article Ed Farrell linked to in the National Review is useful in that it attempts to lay out a connection between the practice of wearing the niqab and the threat Islamic extremists pose to Western Civilization. More evidence of this connection lies in the punishment the French have proposed, namely classes on French culture. In other words, the French see the practice of wearing the niqab as a threat to the very nature of French society. Furthermore, there has been a decided shift in the rhetoric surrounding Islam in the U.S. so that, for many Americans, Islam itself is a threat to the U.S. and all the values it supposedly represents. If, as I am suggesting, the rhetoric that surrounds discussions of the threat of the niqab takes the niqab as a proxy for Islamic extremism or even Islam itself, and that this extremism is understood as a threat to Western civilization, then my analogy holds. This construed threat of Islamic extremism is to scale, or perhaps even greater, with the threat of a loose nuke. In short, I stand by my analogy. Those arguing for a ban on the practice of the niqab adopt a rhetoric that understands this practice as a threat to Western civilization. For this reason, so the argument goes, the risks require a response, the banning of the niqab, rather than analysis, that is the evaluation of facts and evidence for a specific threat. Here, the banning of the niqab is a proxy for the banning of Islamic extremism, or perhaps Islam itself. And to summarize my argument, I think this approach both undermines liberal democratic practices and reduces the effectiveness of the response to actual security threats. Instead, the most effective approach is for liberal democratic governments to avoid interfering in religious matters but rather focus on the rule of law. In this way, liberal democratic governments ensure the right to religious freedom while also ensuring the legal and security structures that make the practice of such freedoms possible. Sincerely, Phil Enns Indonesia ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html