In a message dated 4/19/2011 7:24:59 A.M. , donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx quotes from an author he has corresponded with, Sir Karl Raymond Popper, who died in England sometime ago. He was from Austria, originally. "This gives a new twist to the Socratic idea of ignorance." ---- I'm pleased Popper nods the history of ancient philosophy. Indeed, Hintikka, in his "Logic of Knowledge" proposes to call "Socrates" -- 'the agnotological agent'. For Hintikka, it is a theorem: If S knows that p, S knows that he knows that p. --- K(S, p) --> K(K(S,p)) The agnotological reverse is Socratic: "I only know that I don't know diddly". (Greek, 'ouda'). The origin of Socratic 'wisdom' is based in Homer. Dodds, professor of Greek at Oxford, and author of "The Greeks and the Irrational" writes: "Homer, whom the Greeks worshipped, had the slightly irritatiing habit of explaining character or behaviour in terms of "knowledge." The most familiar instance is his very wide use of the verb "oida" (aorist for, "I know") with a neuter plural object to express not only the possession of technical skill but also what we should call moral character or personal feelings. Thus, Achilles "knows wild things, _like a lion_". Polyphemus "knows lawless things". Nestor and Agamemnon "know friendly things to each other." "This is not merely a irritating Homeric "idiom". This intellectualist approach to the explanation of behaviour set a lasting stamp on the Greek mind [and indeed on Grice -- see my "Ode on a Gricean Urn"]: the so-called Socratic paradoxes, that "virtue is knowledge" The agnotological reverses being: "Achilles "knows wild things, _like a lion_". ----- "But YOU are like a lamb, and a TAMED one at that. Your ignorance (on _things_) never ceases to amaze me." "Polyphemus "knows" lawless things. But the things you ignore are lawful." "Nestor and Agamemnon "know friendly things to each other". But Adam just _knew_ one friendly thing _to Eve, for all we know, which may be nought." JL ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html