[LRflex] Re: Next "R" Camera Survey - 20 Questions.
- From: Javier Perez <summarex@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
That's an ideal situation IE: to have a rich enough
company that you can afford to make a small group of
prestige items and sell them for little or no profit
while recouping with huge sales on mass market items.
Unfortunately, that approach has been tried but does
not seem to be self susteianig for some reason. I
think Nikon tried it as did Topcon. In every case the
top prestige products get eliminated by the next
generation of management which is usually not made up
of camera buffs!
As for rebadging, Leica hasn't really done that except
with the point and shoots. Thr R3 and R4,5,7 were
substantially different from the XE and XD. Only the
film plane casting was the same. The mirror box and
front plates were not. The base electronics and
shutter were the same but the dual metering and extra
circuitry were different. I don't really think that
qualifies as rebadging.
Javier
--- Chris Birchenhall <chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Javier
>
> You suggest "In order to turn itself into a
> profit making company of respectable size. They will
> have to start producing the kind of cameras many
> here
> will not like." They are already doing that with
> various re-badged Lumix and
> Lux cameras. I have to suggest the business plan
> involves pursuing the
> "mass" market with such re-badged cameras and
> maintaining, possibly as a
> loss leader, the "quality" minority products. Note
> they need both; the mass
> cameras to raise good consistent revenues with a
> good margin, but that
> margin can only be sustained if they can maintain a
> premium to the Leica
> badge and that requires niche products that sustain
> the historic association
> of the badge with goods of the highest quality.
> Loosing some money on such
> quality goods will be viable as long as it means it
> can continue to charge
> good premiums on the mass market money earners.
>
> Chris Birchenhall
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: leicareflex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:leicareflex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Javier Perez
> Sent: 19 October 2006 22:27
> To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [LRflex] Re: Next "R" Camera Survey - 20
> Questions.
>
> Hi David
> My apologies. I thought they were passing surveys
> around.
>
> But here's the problem. In order to turn itself into
> a
> profit making company of resopectable size. They
> will
> have to start producing the kind of cameras many
> here
> will not like. Of course that won't matter since we
> are customers and like any company they will trade
> one
> or two of us in for 10 others who might not be as
> picky. That's more than just making a few changes in
> the marketing approach. They will have to start
> practicing price point strategies and this in turn
> require the design of new bodies that are compatible
> with looser tolerances. It means making extensive
> use
> of plastics in areas where theyt don't belong and
> designing optical sets that can produce results
> almost
> as good as Zeiss or Leitx while being far more
> forgiving in terms of axial spacing or centering of
> elements. That's the Canon design svchool btw: They
> might have to introduce a new product line if they
> are
> not willing to call those less than spectacular
> lenses
> Leicas! They may also have to farm out lens
> manufacturing for these to Cosina or God forbid,
> Samyang! They may have to introce lenses on other
> companies' mounts. You'll notice that even though
> the
> lenses are what counts on a camera, it's the camera
> that holds the badge! Then they will have to
> concentrate on getting the Leica label on as many
> high
> end point and shoots as they can. They may have to
> kill off good products in order to maximize the sale
> of inferior but more profitable. Did you know that
> until now Leitz is the only company that produces
> lower speed lenses to the same optical and
> mechanical
> quality standards as their higher focal equivalents.
> (Maybe Zeiss for SLR lenses)Imagine the 90 Elmarit
> was
> a dog compared to the 90 Summicron! As for digital,
> they will have to play catchup and anyone who has a
> Rebel or a 1Ds can tell you that Canon imaging
> technology is the best in the world.
> Now of course all this begs the question, why didn't
> they strart doing this years ago. The answer is not
> that they had stodgy old mangers and designers who
> refusred to look foward, nor was it because they
> disregarded the wishes of Leitz users. The truth is
> that it was out of loyalty to that customer base
> that
> they didn't emoploy all the modern business
> practices
> which include farming out to the east and
> relabeling.
> Do you remember the ruckus caused by the customer
> base
> when the XE based R3 came out - Not a real Leica.
> How
> about the CL - one of my favourite cameras - not a
> real Leica. But that's nothing. I recall more than a
> little griping about the plastic tab on the advance
> lever of the M4. There are still some yahoos who
> swear
> that it's not as good a camrera as the M3 and that's
> what they form their opinion on, Of course they'll
> never admit it! So then, they have been paying
> attention to their customers and that's why progress
> has been slow. The new Leitz, may become a better
> company from an business standpoint and eventually a
> more significant one from an industry standpoint.
> But
> I can assure that it won't be the company that most
> Leica users identify with today.
> As for me, I do have some loyalty towards the brand
> but if they become just another company, why should
> I
> treat them as anything other than that! IE: If the
> R14
> is the performance and specification equivalent of
> the 1Ds Mk5 but costs 250 more, why should I go with
> the Leica if the lenses are by that time about the
> same. This is how modern companies work. There is
> little product differentiation, no brand loyalty no
> or
> loyalty to employees or to customers. Pure
> comnpetition I think they call it! Now of course, if
> the only option is to go broke then I guess I would
> do
> the same thing!
>
>
> Javier
>
>
> --- David Young <telyt@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > At 19/10/2006, you wrote:
> >
> > >Well David
> > >Those are all nice thoughts, but the company you
> > are
> > >describing already exists. It's called Canon. As
> > for
> > >this Lees fellow not haveing the time to answer
> > >questions on this list, if that's the case why
> > should
> > >we have the time to buy his cameras! BAD ANSWER!
> >
> > Curious, Javier, that I don't see Canon's boss
> > answering questions on
> > the Canon list.... Or Nikon's boss on the Nikon
> > lists. If that is
> > your criteria for buying a camera, then I guess
> > you'd better take up
> > painting! Of course, only if the paint maker's
> > president will answer
> > questions on your local painting list!
> >
> >
> > >As for the young managers, thing. It looks like
> > they want
> > >to start marketing themselves as a young and
> > vibrant
> > >company! I have never liked companies that
> worship
> > >the youth culture and I avoid them like the
> plague!
> > If
> > >that's what Leitz turns into then I will not have
> > >anything to do with them.
> >
> > That is your choice.
> >
> >
> > >As for the survey. I found one question very
> > unusual.
> > >That was the use of polycarbonate lens barrels. I
> > >believe unreinforced polycarbonate has a higher
> > >expansion coefficient than most metals including
> I
> > >think, aluminum. That makes it useless as a
> carrier
> > >for optical elements in a critical design either
> > >directly in the lens packs or in the focusing
> > barrels.
> > >Polycarbonate is also more flexible than metals
> and
> > >can distort more easily under load. Again, it's
> not
> > >suitable for critical apps. I believe a few R
> > lenses
> > >were made with plastic barrels but I think they
> > were
> > >limited to the normal Summicrons. Also, when
> > designing
>
=== message truncated ===
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