RE: authorization issues
- From: "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:39:21 -0400
I really don't think "soliciting" will do much good at this point. It's
a little like "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." Every counselor
of every agency will say that jaws is what everyone knows. If GW were
to come along and point out all the ways which their product was better,
it's like comparing apples to Oranges (pun intended!).
Clients themselves will have to demand their right for tech support, not
just a product. And as someone has already pointed out, at the time of
purchase, most clients have no idea what they really want or need as far
as assistive technology.
Chip
------------------------------
Chip Orange
Database Administrator
Florida Public Service Commission
Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(850) 413-6314
(Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judith Bron
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 5:12 PM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: authorization issues
>
> I agree that most government vocational/rehap counselors
> purchase jaws at
> the behest of their state commissions. Once you get
> accustomed to jaws it
> takes a lot to get another piece of software that you have to
> start learning
> all over again. My first copy of jaws was purchased by the
> state. When I
> purchased the second copy it was almost a knee jerk reaction
> to order jaws.
> Perhaps the other screen reader companies should spend more
> time soliciting
> government agencies. Judith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 4:23 PM
> Subject: Re: authorization issues
>
>
> > There are a lot of reasons, Gerald. One, and an important
> one and very
> > logical, is that with the exception of some bugs in each
> release that
> > happen
> > to affect the majority of the users' computers and thus
> receive immediate
> > attention in the development and tech support departments,
> not everyone
> > has
> > the same problems or so many problems with Jaws, just
> depending on the
> > specifics of their computer, their operating system, the
> version of Jaws,
> > and a few other variables.It's not as if Jaws if blowing up
> everyone's
> > computers all day. I do happen to have had a lot of
> difficult stuff happen
> > with Jaws9, and some other people would understand quite
> well, but we
> > probably wouldn't even be having the same problems.
> Overall, however
> > strange
> > it sounds to say it, the program works. Now, if it were a
> Honda Prelude
> > instead of a screen reader, there would be a lot of returns
> and probably a
> > factory recall several times a year, and a devastating
> review in Consumer
> > Reports that might strike the company's death knell. But it
> isn't a car,
> > and
> > the distinction makes a difference.
> >
> > Second, FS is not, I don't think, as savage and cynical as
> all that. I
> > don't
> > know why some people feel it is, but I think they're just
> frustrated and
> > humiliated by their dependence on the program by the time
> they start
> > saying
> > stuff like that.
> >
> > Last, and this is economically critical: I think the
> majority of expensive
> > adaptive tech equipment like Jaws is bought not with the private
> > disposable
> > funds of all the users, but by state rehabilitation
> agencies. The funding
> > is
> > government funding, and it's the kind of situation where
> once a vendor of
> > something as unusual and, to all but the initiated,
> esoteric thing like a
> > screen reader program (don't forget, all those freebies
> weren't out there
> > until recently) and a vendor ingratiates themselves, convinces the
> > agencies
> > of their product's reliability and utility, it gets
> approved so that, for
> > instance at the rehab agency that first bought me jaws when
> I'd stopped
> > working at a job I'd had to drive to and use my eyes for,
> and my income
> > was
> > low,. They didn't ask me. And I couldn't have helped them research
> > something
> > to buy, either. It was all new to me. And Jaws was what was
> in their
> > stable
> > already. Sure, if I'd known about Window Eyes and really
> had a reason to
> > request it, I could have lobbied for them to buy it and
> possibly gotten
> > what
> > I requested. But usually it doesn't work that way. The
> applicant for such
> > help usually is relying on the rehab counselor to know
> about and provide
> > these things. I certainly was.
> >
> > So those are a few things to consider. This isn't a market
> like other
> > markets. The same dynamics don't apply.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: authorization issues
> >
> >
> >
> > I haven't dealt with FS tech support, but if what you have
> experienced is
> > really true, why would anyone use JAWS, especially since
> all the other
> > commercially available screen readers are less expensive?
> Not to mention
> > the ever-growing number of free screen readers like NVDA
> and Thunder. So
> > how does JAWS maintain its position as the leading screen
> reader? I'm not
> > defending FS, but if they really do treat their blind and visually
> > impaired
> > customers with such callous indifference, how do they
> remain in business?
> > After all, they are not the domineering monopoly that Microsoft is.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 2:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: authorization issues
> >
> >
> >> HI Chip,
> >>
> >> Just to say I understand exactly the sort of frustrating
> experiences
> >> you're
> >> describing below, because I've had them myself, more than
> ever during
> >> this
> >> year of Jaws 9, never mind which build. Uninstalling and
> reinstalling,
> >> over
> >> and over, has never rectified one single problem I've ever
> called tech
> >> support for help with, and yet they've insisted on my
> repeating that
> >> drill
> >> over and over just as you say. At one point this year, I
> spent a total of
> >> something close to six hours on the phone, wrote detailed and well
> >> organized
> >> reports on my "issues" and sent them to the top of the tech support
> >> department to be reviewed before someone from Tier 2
> called me, but in a
> >> couple of cases, the reps who were assigned to call me
> either weren't
> >> given
> >> my report to look at (which the head guy who shall remain
> unnamed) had
> >> emphasized to me how important and valuable my taking the
> time to make
> >> such
> >> reports would be to them) or had received it but hadn't
> read it, and
> >> began
> >> from nothing. In one case, I insisted that the guy just
> sit there and
> >> read
> >> my report while I waited, paying for long distance. That
> gfew cents was
> >> worth less than my time. of course, despite the
> intervening minutes of
> >> discussion, most of what we wound up doing was me being
> led by the hand
> >> to
> >> uninstall and reinstall five different ways, as if it
> always had to be
> >> some
> >> glitch I'd introduced by improperly installing and
> configuring jaws. Like
> >> hell. What is it, a Model you've got to know how to
> practically rebuild
> >> all
> >> by yourself in your own garage or have a chauffer trained
> as a mechanic
> >> if
> >> you want to drive one? That's a rhetorical question.
> >>
> >> anyway, I manage to survive with all the glitches and bugs
> that remain
> >> for
> >> me, and I have to admit I'm grateful for it working as
> well as it does,
> >> because it enable me in a way that still astonishes me and
> fills me with
> >> gratitude compared to the despair I felt when I began to
> lose my ability
> >> to
> >> see clearly enough and read a little over ten years ago.
> So part of me
> >> still
> >> feels as if it's a gift and a miracle.
> >>
> >> But the complaints are real, nonetheless. And if I had the
> money to
> >> spend,
> >> I'd consider jumping ship, too, but I can't deal with
> that, financially.
> >> And
> >> life will go on, not all that badly despite my annoyance.
> >>
> >> Which is a long-winded way of pumping my fist in the air
> and yelling "you
> >> go, boy!"
> >>
> >> Joel
> >> desite juming graatiude rebuilt configuitng configuing nd
> imporperly
> >> intalling instlling intduced intereducesbine gntohing.at repeated
> >> yo[exseyou're describing
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 6:32 AM
> >> Subject: RE: authorization issues
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks Cher, but that really sounds like a problem with an
> early build
> >> of jaws 9. If uac caused problems in jaws, we'd all
> certainly know of
> >> it by now.
> >>
> >> I am very reluctant to get on the phone with jaws tech
> support again.
> >> I've spent many hours reinstalling everything for them on the last
> >> problem I reported. Reinstallations seems to be their *only*
> >> trouble-shooting measure. When I asked for the problem to
> be escalated,
> >> the person I was working with said "no", because he was
> the escalation
> >> he said.
> >>
> >> It seems every time I had done a reinstallation I hadn't
> done it quite
> >> right according to him (you didn't delete the directory
> afterwards using
> >> narrator; you didn't also uninstall and reinstall the
> video driver; you
> >> did a repair when a uninstall and reinstall would have been better,
> >> etc.).
> >>
> >> After going through many calls like that I finally stopped
> calling. I'm
> >> now requisitioning Window Eyes from my employer. When it
> comes, with
> >> it's new scripting feature with vba as it's language, I'm going to
> >> switch. I've already gotten much better pre-sales tech
> support from GW
> >> Micro than I've ever gotten from FS.
> >>
> >> Sorry for the soapbox, I'll get off now and will try not
> to climb back
> >> on.
> >>
> >> Anyone who's really dedicated to jaws is free to pass this
> along to the
> >> head of their tech support and/or sales; it's fine to let them know
> >> they've lost at least one customer to poor quality tech
> support, and to
> >> better tech support from a competitor who hadn't even sold
> me a product
> >> yet.
> >>
> >> And, as icing on the cake, they don't have any such
> copy-protection, so
> >> no authorization issues to deal with!!!
> Hooorrraaayyyy!!!!! (that's my
> >> current problem I just posted about solved!)
> >>
> >> And, no difference in versions, so no "professional"
> version to deal
> >> with for certain versions of the operating system!!!!!
> >> Hooorrraaayyyyy!!!!!
> >>
> >> Chip
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Chip Orange
> >> Database Administrator
> >> Florida Public Service Commission
> >>
> >> Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> (850) 413-6314
> >>
> >> (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
> >> necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service
> Commission.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>
> >> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >> On Behalf Of Cher Bosch
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:08 AM
> >> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: authorization issues
> >>
> >>
> >> Not exactly the same, but similar... On a Lonova ThinkPad I set
> >> up last fall with VISTA home (premium, I think) and the
> first build of
> >> JAWS9, we ended up having to disable UAC to keep JAWS from
> switching
> >> into demo mode. If I remember, evrytime UAC came up, JAWS
> switched to
> >> demo.
> >>
> >> Cher
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 7/7/2008 10:05 AM
> >>>>>
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> On my vista laptop I've noticed that if I switch from my
> >> wireless nic to my wired nic, my jaws authorization
> suddenly switches
> >> into demo mode. If I update it while using the wired nic
> until it's a
> >> registered copy again, then when I switch back to my
> wireless nic it's
> >> an unregistered demo copy again.
> >>
> >> Has anyone seen this happen? On my thinkpad laptop, which was
> >> running xp and an earlier version of jaws, I frequently
> switched between
> >> wired and wireless without a problem, so I'm guessing this
> is related to
> >> the latest build or vista, and was just wondering if anyone else is
> >> seeing this?
> >>
> >> thanks.
> >>
> >> Chip
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Chip Orange
> >> Database Administrator
> >> Florida Public Service Commission
> >>
> >> Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> (850) 413-6314
> >>
> >> (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do
> >> not necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public
> Service Commission.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> JFW related links:
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--
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