Adiva is providing a DFA check tools which can directly interface with Allegro. Please check with their website for more info. http://www.adiva.com Cheers, Chan -----Original Message----- From: Tim Woytek [mailto:Tim.Woytek@xxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 12:49 AM To: 'icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: how do YOU handle component spacing rules? I am looking forward to these new checks. Currently, we do placement checks in VALOR as well. It takes time to do these valor checks anyway,,,,so if I can accomplish the same thing in Allegro (and not need to tie up a VALOR license) then great. I assume they will have the DRC mode switch(s) to adjust accordingly. As for the multi-threading,,,,,,I would like to second that vote as well. Regards, Tim Woytek PCB Project Manager/Senior PCB Designer Plexus Corporation Technology Group http://www.plexus.com Office# 214-712-7316 Fax# 214-712-7301 Mobile# 254-624-3307 tim.woytek@xxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 11:42 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: how do YOU handle component spacing rules? On-line placement checks would be nice, but I have a concern about adding another layer of on-line DRC checking. As it is, it takes 45 minutes to an hour to do a dbdoctor run on some of our boards, and this is on dual Xeon PCs with 1 GB of RAM. Creating and updating modules takes similar times. Another layer of DRC checking is going to slow the process down even more. It would help if Cadence would start using some multi-threading in Allegro so it would operate more efficiently in conjunction with adding additional DRC checks that will slow things down even more. Even those with single processors would benefit, at least those with hyper-threading processors. The other option, of course, is getting some smaller boards to work on :) -- George Patrick Tektronix, Inc. Central Engineering, PCB Design Group P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512 Beaverton, OR 97077-0001 Phone: 503-627-5272 Fax: 503-627-5587 http://www.tektronix.com http://www.pcb-designer.com It's my opinion, not Tektronix' -----Original Message----- From: Gene Carman [mailto:gcarman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 09:19 To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: how do YOU handle component spacing rules? "Worst case" is different for different customers depending on their manufacturing equipment and their ultimate goal for their products. So what is worst case for one customer, could be a walk in the park for another... Sort of like line and space rules: some can do 3/3 mils and do not charge a premium, others can barely do 4/4. The 3/3 guys want small handheld products, thus they consider 3/3 a walk in the park. The 4/4 guys want cheap products, so they push for 4/5 for cheaper processes. Some can do stacked microvias, others cannot. It all comes down to design density and the customer goal. I will have to play with the DFA rules, but it sure would be nice to have these as true on line DRCs. (I know, I know... future release) Someone suggested building in the limits into my place bound layer... great idea... lessee that means modify the library for each design... oh yeah, that sounds expedient. Sorry, but that just does not sound like the best way to do things. Being able to change a variable in a DRC type set of rules is the right way. I notice that this is planned for the future. Thanks all. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin McCowan [mailto:kmccowan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 6:16 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: how do YOU handle component spacing rules? Why not just make everything worst case? If you can do it that way it seems as though everyone would be happy. It might cause you some distress, but you wouldn't have to make different parts for different customers and the rules would apply. It has been they way I have always worked and it hurts a little, sure, but it solves the problem without a lot of tom-foolery. And while you are figuring that out, why not alert Cadence that this type of ruleset would be extremely useful to you. I would certainly welcome rules of this type added to the already formidable toolset we have. Good luck, Kevin McCowan SR. PCB Designer TSI Telsys > -----Original Message----- > From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Gene Carman > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 12:00 AM > To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [PCB_FORUM] how do YOU handle component spacing rules? > > > Is there a way to set a component type to component type rule? What I = > mean is that certain component types tend to have different rules... = > such as 0402 to 0402 verses 0402 to SOT or BGA. > > The only rules I have found are pad to pad... which does not allow for = > different type rules. > > I spoke to some other designers and they offered two solutions: One is = > to build visual indicators into the parts so you can tell if your 0402 = > is too close to another 0402 or BGA... great, no DRC there. The other = > solution is simply use grids and place them... again no DRC. > > I have different customers that require different spacings. One = > customer wants 20 mils between 0402 pads, another wants 25. Customer 1 = > wants 50 mils between BGA and 0402, customer 2 wants 40 mils between BGA = > and any other comp. =20 > > With other tools I had the ability to assign components to a component = > type and then assign rules of type to type. I don't see a way to do = > that in Allegro (15.1) (very similar to net type rules in Allegro, for = > component to component spacing) > > What do you do? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > To subscribe/unsubscribe: > Send a message to icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > with a subject of subscribe or unsubscribe > > To view the archives of this list please login at > //www.freelists.org. Our list name is icu-pcb-forum > or go to //www.freelists.org/archives/icu-pcb-forum/ > > Problems or Questions: > Send an email to icu-pcb-forum-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Want to post a job listing ? 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