[openbeos] Re: unix software without tears
- From: "Jonas Sundström" <jonas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: openbeos@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 01:21:25 +0200 CEST
"Ryan Leavengood" <leavengood@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I haven't taken a lot of time to explore this system, but it does
> seem
> pretty interesting. It also prompts some questions:
>
> - How hard would it be to add Haiku as a supported platform for this?
This I don't know.
I think pkgsrc expects at least the 'bmake' utility.
> - Would this be used to manage all the Unix-like utilities
> and applications currently shipping with BeOS R5?
They would most likely be available through pkgsrc,
but updating them through pkgsrc could be discouraged,
or perhaps even blocked. (a Haiku-specific patch?)
It may be possible to limit pkgsrc to install to pkgsrc-only
locations, and thus not be able to overwrite BeOS/Haiku files.
...
> - Would using pkgsrc result in an explosion of associated
> directories which might clutter a filesystem or confuse
> novice users?
1)
A set of root level directories (the standard unix set) as
symlinks /xxx -> /boot/beos/unix/xxx
would not be visible to a novice user, and most of us
long-time BeOS users would hardly ever see them either.
I know these folders, and their supposed clutter is some sort
of blasphemy in the BeOS universe, but they are not a threat
to order and cleanliness, considering:
Regardless of whether your thousands of unix files go in
/lib -> /boot/beos/unix/lib (and friends)
or in ~/config/ (something)
it's the same amount of files,
the same amount of interpackage dependencies.
2)
AtheOS/Syllable had a solution for installing unix software.
(probably inspired by an older unix standard)
Binary packages would be installed to /packages,
creating a single folder, with unix-ish subfolders:
/packages/perl/bin/perl
/packages/perl/bin/blaa
/packages/perl/lib/blaaalib
/packages/perl/lib/bloolib
/packages/perl/etc/greatstuff
...
These files would then be symlinked into a set of aggregation folders,
IIRC, and any clashes be dealt with by the package utility.
It might be worth taking a look at. I don't know if it's great,
but it appeared to work.
> - How many users of Haiku will be skilled enough to
> use a system like this,
I bet the current users would be skilled enough.
Linux distros seem to be doing okay with GUI frontends.
> in addition to having the knowledge of what
> Unix tools they would want to install?
You may have read about some neat Linux application,
or used said Linux application. Now you want it in Haiku.
> - Would we need to provide our own source for binary
> packages for a Haiku pkgsrc?
> What about the need for both Intel and PPC binaries?
I believe pkgsrc pulls down distfiles, which contain all the
source necessary to build a package. (To be installed,
or to be saved as a .tgz-ipped binary package.)
For PPC, as long as the pkgsrc utilities have been ported,
there shouldn't be any problems beyond the cross-platform
issues of individual packages.
> - Is there truly a desire or need to have the many hundreds of open
> source Unix tools available to Haiku (especially when Haiku-only
> equivalents are likely available?)
Yeah.. I've been thinking of how to use PHP with Poorman's... ;)
> This strikes me as potentially
> turning Haiku into another Linux or FreeBSD equivalent Unix clone.
> BeOS wasn't yet another Unix clone, and I don't think Haiku should be
> either.
It shouldn't be, and I don't think it will be, as long as there are
- a clear policy on how to integrate unix software
- software management tools that uphold the policy
> - Would having pkgsrc along with another higher-level Haiku only
> package system result in clutter and confusion in the system?
It might work, if they can be kept separate.
> Though most of the above questions sound pretty negative toward the
> idea of pkgsrc, I'm not trying to shoot it down, just playing devil's
> advocate.
A good thing. :)
/Jonas Sundström. www.kirilla.com
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