[haiku-development] Re: Who's working Haiku's on UI/UX?
- From: fox noodles <foxnoodles@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 13:22:26 +0400
Please stop the "I know it all, I have so much experience, please don't
make me explain anything, just do what I say" attitude. Either what you
propose makes sense or it doesn't. I can and will judge for myself and so
can everybody else on this list. For it to be any different,
I wrote a whole speech on *** on this but I guess this guy is not worth
it. a classic lazy programmer who prefers to stick with an outdated thing
for years.
I have seen too many "designers" produce crap that isn't thought through.
Nobody cares about that. U’re no one do judge a designer actually. No sure
about programmers as well..
Ye well Good buy/luck people. google the “Haiku concept” in a month or so.
I’ll be posting it on bechance.
p.s. Stephan at least read the whole discussion before posting a bull*t
like that next time.
Good luck with the project.
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Stephan Aßmus <superstippi@xxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,
Am 16.05.2015 um 19:52 schrieb fox noodles:
Thanks for the comprehensive Adrien,
yes I'm aware that most of the time people are working for free on Haiku
etc. so do I ATM, but as u might already know and from my personal
experience it's always(I repeat always no exceptions unless you're a
boss or a best friend) hard to convince a programmer to do something
that most of the programmers don't even care about, unless it's a
front-end developer who's into modern stuff anyway.
You should say good bye to this kind of thinking, or you won't get
anywhere. Not here and not elsewhere.
Programmers care very much about design. And usability and consistency.
They care about elegance and simplicity. About optimizing human machine
interaction.
What is very hard is to get a programmer to implement something that makes
no sense to him. Or which is inconsistent. Or which breaks a lot of
existing apps that are working correctly right now.
So instead of telling everyone how much you know about the subject, and
instead of indirectly insulting the people who have worked on Haiku's UI,
you simply need to propose your ideas and bring arguments to support the
changes. If it makes sense, you will meet little resistence, if any at all.
So far, we have not even seen one mockup from you. Or even heard one
concrete idea other than you like hiding scrollbars by default (of all the
things that could and should be changed...)
The reason why Haiku has almost no animations is because the UI is not
hardware accelerated. And the windows are not even buffered. Unless this is
changed first (and I am looking forward to the work that looncraz is
doing), you cannot implement transparency, shadows, animations and
transitions in Haiku's UI. Actually, if you look at Mac OS or Qt, these
have first developed an extensive API for animations, before updating their
widgets to use them. This is another huge undertaking that makes changes in
Haiku's UI premature. And 3) Haiku's widgets are not composited, they use
clipping, which is another big problem if you want to animate them or use
certain design elements.
The first problem is designing a new UI. Not only the looks, but also the
interactions and transitions. This alone may require a lot of discussion,
since there will always be resistance to change.
If you are lucky enough to reach a consensus, then you face the much
bigger problem of how to change all these apps out there to still look good
after the code changes in Haiku. Sometimes they may not even work correctly
anymore. You will realize that the devil is in the details and some
decisions that the Be enginers have made affect us now and make changes
very hard sometimes.
That's why I asked
if someone's responsible for UI on Haiku, cuz we won't get anywhere
anytime soon if I'll have to argue with all programmer's out there about
a window shadow which is not a must but is certainly better to have and
more visually appealing(not even talking about the brand essence for end
users globally) so it won't cure any cancer but it's actually a must
have thingy.
There's a lot of obvious stuff like that which is missing in Haiku's UI
and if one doesn't agree with that we'll end up arguing on each and
every pixel that was changed.
Please stop the "I know it all, I have so much experience, please don't
make me explain anything, just do what I say" attitude. Either what you
propose makes sense or it doesn't. I can and will judge for myself and so
can everybody else on this list. For it to be any different, I have seen
too many "designers" produce crap that isn't thought through.
Best regards,
-Stephan
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