Yes, the Hebrew term 'paniym' means in front of, on the face of. So the open sky is the face of the firmament - the lower visible part - clouds, blue sky, etc. Pax Christi, Robert Is the firmament the plenum? thus then if so the plenum boundry is above the atmosphere. does this not then conflict with waters to waters.. although above the waers, or even between the waters does not necessarily set boundaries... just limits.... Phil