[geocentrism] Re: correction
- From: Bernie Brauer <bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
John wrote:
"Does it really matter to us whether or not we rotate and orbit or just stand
still?
Yes it matters a great deal because a non-moving, non-rotating Earth
proven to the satisfaction of the masses, would give the Bible a great degree
of credibility. People would think, "against all odds they were right, the Bible
must be the word of God."
Then they would investigate the Bible and discover other truths like a Judgment
Day to account for their behavior during their time on Earth. A person is judged
by their thoughts, words and deeds and the intentions and motivations behind
their thoughts words and deeds. Great rewards and severe punishments are given.
When people believed this there would be little crime or war. No dead one
million
Iraqis. No Ali Abbas with his arms blown off.
Secondly, in order for the Earth to be stationary the stars have to be able to
go around nightly, so that eliminates the 78 billion light year radius
of the universe and then that destroys the 14 billion years built upon that
radius,
which knocks out the time prop needed for organic evolution.
When people realise their fellow man must have been created and not evolved
from bacteria or animals then again, they would have greater respect and awe
for other created humans and not bomb them or do evil to them. In fact
ig there's great rewards they might be more inclined to help
and to do good to others.
Bernie
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, John Roodt <johnroodt@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: John Roodt <johnroodt@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: correction
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 9:55 PM
:-) no problem, Phil. And, no, I am not a clever scholar.
We're like a company of soldiers all marching to the beat of the drum in our
own heads, and each of us loudly protesting that we're the only one in step.
But even though we should probably end this discussion, I see no reason to
apologise to this forum.
Wasn't it the Scripture that caused us to question the current model of the
Universe? Even though we had no scientific proof, we were confident that the
Bible held a contrary view, and we were inclined to believe it.
In fact, Neville's website initially quoted the Scriptures that indicated that
the Earth was fixed and could not be moved.
I asked the question ages ago whether or not the word 'moved' meant a physical
movement as opposed to: "my heart is steadfast and will not be moved", or "I
was moved to tears" etc. No one answered it. But I have watched the debates to
see if the question would be answered anyway.
So it's significant that Neville appears to believe little of what the bible
says, and that you and I (and others) can differ so much in our interpretation
of what the bible says. Does it really matter to us whether or not we rotate
and orbit or just stand still? What matters is that there is an apparent
discrepancy between what Science says and what we believe the Bible says. At
least that's how it appeared when I joined this forum. Maybe you've all moved
beyond that and I haven't. My only concern is: "what is the truth?"
We both love the truth; we read the same Scriptures; and we pray to the same
God for understanding on these matters and others far more important than
whether the Earth moves or not. How then can we be so far apart?
I don't know -- but I'll move on now.
With respect to all,
John
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:48 PM, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Peter came in with some biblical comments that seemed to deny Jesus was God.
along with other, Therefore I can answer those points together with my response
to Johns below. inserted in brown.. Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Roodt
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:18 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: correction
Phil,
Catholics overlook one glaring truth. JESUS EXISTED BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN!! In
what possible sense could Mary be his mother in Heaven?!? A Mystery perhaps
but Elizabeth did say it..
42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me that the
mother of my Lord should come to me?
Some Catholics may overlook it ! but they are not "clever scientists" like
myself, and would hardly be expected to comprehend the complexities of time
space and eternity. Thats why Heaven is called a place of many mansions!
I have already asked John using this same quotation , did he understand the
difference. "Before Abraham was born, I AM". Time is temporal or temporary..
Eternity in temporal terms is compared to an everpresent "now" A mystery to 3D
human brains, but fully experienced in the next world. " We pray ....." Glory
be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, as it was in the
beginning, is now, and ever shall be..."
beginning = ever shall be..
What has Mary to do with Him?
46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced
in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid:
for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he
that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name.
Jesus entered this world for a purpose ... He wasn't created here the way we
are. He already existed. He is no-one's Son but God's alone. Mary is NOT the
mother of God.
And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
She is not even the mother of Jesus in glory -- how could she be?
You've said it yourself, Catholics make "Graven images of things in Heaven and
Earth and pay them homage"... how much more evidence must you see of pagan
worship before your eyes are opened and you see the truth?
You read into my words a thing I did not say. And it is off subject, unless you
are only interested in Catholic bashing.. I am not into protestant bashing,
and will not be drawn into such a slanging match here.
Sufficient to say, no catholic may pay homage to images or things. Respect
absolutely, as I would hope you give to the Holy Book, lest someone commit
sacrilege with it. You could not see, or else ignored my accent on humility in
all things as promoted by Mary.
The Bible is an incredible work. Consider how God allows sinful men to be the
writers of His Word. Even Jesus did not commit anything to writing -- He knows
that He can get man to write down His eternal and perfect truths. Even though
they are weaved into the fabric of human existence -- interlaced with the
stories of sinful human lives. It is truly amazing. How awesome, and wise, and
great is our God. The depth of His Wisdom is unfathomable.
Thus here may I take the quote Peter used and His comment..
It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines
commands of men.'
So, unless a doctrine such as Mary veneration is in the Bible, it is a doctrine
of men. Peter. "Consider how God allows sinful men to be the writers of His
Word. Even Jesus did not commit anything to writing -- He knows that He can get
man to write down His eternal and perfect truths"
And if you did not hear it from His mouth, how can you be absolutely sure the
Bible is not a collection of the doctrines of men!
Jesus selected 12, many more than the few of the testaments. Yet it was the men
who followed centuries later who decided to collect and authorise the Books
into a canonised NT of Scripture. "Doctrines of men " As are the Quran or the
Book of Mormon!.... They cannot authorise themselves..
Mary is just a blessed part of the fabric through which God wove His plan for
salvation. Jesus himself said that no-one born of woman was greater than John
the Baptist -- not even Mary. How could she be exalted above even John the
Baptist?
These issues are your preferred interpretation. If you are indeed a clever
scholar then I must weigh your opinion against other clever scholars who also
are very well educated men. And after that, then one must wonder which if any
has the guidance of the Holy Ghost.
That the most intelligent of scholars in the world are unable to find consensus
on so many issues raised by Bible study, is fair evidence to show how
in-appropriate is the idea that the Bible Alone suffices unto salvation.
Thanks for efforts to explain your position, but I think you need to step back
and re-look at what you believe.
Be sure I believe nothing blindly. I said above, "And after that, then one must
wonder which if any has the guidance of the Holy Ghost. " If it was on
scholarship alone, I would have no faith. I firmly believe that those men whose
apostolic succession is proven by the historical continuity of "laying of the
hands" in ceremonial sacramental ordination all the way back to the Apostles,
and to Christ Himself are the most logical group whose scholarship would be
guided by the Holy Ghost; that same group of men who collected and authorised
the Holy Scripture and protected it throughout the centuries.
I agree, we have exhausted the subject here. Its been an enjoyable discussion.
My Prayers as always are with you and all the members of the group. Many thanks
to Neville for his tolerance and for allowing us to proceed. Regards,
Philip.
John
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:05 AM, PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
There is an awful lot at stake here. How terrible for either of us to cling to
our beliefs at the cost of our souls. Incidentally, is there a consequence to
denying Mary as "Queen of Heaven"?
A good question indeed for Jesus said 7 It is in vain that they keep worshiping
me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.'
So, unless a doctrine such as Mary veneration is in the Bible, it is a doctrine
of men.
46 While he was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and brothers took
up a position outside seeking to speak to him. 47 So someone said to him:
"Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak to
you." 48 As an answer he said to the one telling him: "Who is my mother, and
who are my brothers?" 49 And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said:
"Look! My mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father who
is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
Also, Jesus showed us that even he himself was not to be venerated, let alone
his Mother, only his Father in heaven, MT 19:16 And, behold, one came and said
unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
MT 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but
one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Pete Charlton
Other related posts:
