[geocentrism] Re: correction
- From: "John Roodt" <johnroodt@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:40:30 +1000
No :-)
I'm just going to bite my lip more often. It's silly to cross-swords with
the Catholics. I'm going to let them throw out statements without feeling
compelled to "correct" them. I was Catholic too growing up, and was the most
ardent worshiper of Mary around. So I understand how deeply this issue is
felt by many Catholics.
I've always considered this forum to be an eclectic mix -- although we have
our weird moments.
I'll stick around till I'm thrown out, and pay more attention to the Science
John
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 4:46 PM, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> I don't know -- but I'll move on now.
>
> With respect to all,
> John
> Hey John... Hope you are not moving on er off .. the list that is.. I'm
> not finished with ya yet! Grin..
>
> You said,
> So it's significant that Neville appears to believe little of what the
> bible says,
>
> I don't really believe that... not at all.. All he has done is shown an
> open ness to what it all means.. Something everybody wants.. right
> Neville? Thats putting honesty above conviction... something a lot of
> scientists will not do.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Roodt <johnroodt@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:55 PM
> *Subject:* [geocentrism] Re: correction
>
> :-) no problem, Phil. And, no, I am not a clever scholar.
>
> We're like a company of soldiers all marching to the beat of the drum in
> our own heads, and each of us loudly protesting that we're the only one in
> step.
>
> But even though we should probably end this discussion, I see no reason to
> apologise to this forum.
>
> Wasn't it the Scripture that caused us to question the current model of the
> Universe? Even though we had no scientific proof, we were confident that the
> Bible held a contrary view, and we were inclined to believe it.
>
> In fact, Neville's website initially quoted the Scriptures that indicated
> that the Earth was fixed and could not be moved.
>
> I asked the question ages ago whether or not the word 'moved' meant a
> physical movement as opposed to: "my heart is steadfast and will not be
> moved", or "I was moved to tears" etc. No one answered it. But I have
> watched the debates to see if the question would be answered anyway.
>
> So it's significant that Neville appears to believe little of what the
> bible says, and that you and I (and others) can differ so much in our
> interpretation of what the bible says. Does it really matter to us whether
> or not we rotate and orbit or just stand still? What matters is that there
> is an apparent discrepancy between what Science says and what we believe the
> Bible says. At least that's how it appeared when I joined this forum. Maybe
> you've all moved beyond that and I haven't. My only concern is: "what is the
> truth?"
>
> We both love the truth; we read the same Scriptures; and we pray to the
> same God for understanding on these matters and others far more important
> than whether the Earth moves or not. How then can we be so far apart?
>
> I don't know -- but I'll move on now.
>
> With respect to all,
> John
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 1:48 PM, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Peter came in with some biblical comments that seemed to deny Jesus was
>> God. along with other, Therefore I can answer those points together with my
>> response to Johns below. inserted in brown.. Philip.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* John Roodt <johnroodt@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *To:* geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:18 AM
>> *Subject:* [geocentrism] Re: correction
>>
>> Phil,
>>
>> Catholics overlook one glaring truth. JESUS EXISTED BEFORE THE WORLD
>> BEGAN!! In what possible sense could Mary be his mother in Heaven?!? A
>> Mystery perhaps but Elizabeth did say it..
>>
>>
>> 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women
>> and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me *that
>> the mother of my Lord should come to me? *
>>
>> Some Catholics may overlook it ! but they are not "clever scientists"
>> like myself, and would hardly be expected to comprehend the complexities of
>> time space and eternity. Thats why Heaven is called a place of many
>> mansions!
>>
>> I have already asked John using this same quotation , did he understand
>> the difference. "Before Abraham was born, I AM". Time is temporal or
>> temporary.. Eternity in temporal terms is compared to an everpresent
>> "now" A mystery to 3D human brains, but fully experienced in the next world.
>> " We pray ....." Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy
>> Ghost, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be..."
>> beginning = ever shall be..
>>
>> What has Mary to do with Him?
>>
>> 46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath
>> rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 *Because he hath regarded the humility of
>> his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me
>> blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty hath done great things to me:* and
>> holy is his name.
>> Jesus entered this world for a purpose ... He wasn't created here the
>> way we are. He already existed. He is no-one's Son but God's alone. Mary is
>> NOT the mother of God.
>>
>> And whence is this to me *that the mother of my Lord should come to me? *
>> She is not even the mother of Jesus in glory -- how could she be?
>>
>> You've said it yourself, Catholics make "Graven images of things in Heaven
>> and Earth and pay them homage"... how much more evidence must you see of
>> pagan worship before your eyes are opened and you see the truth?
>> *You read into my words a thing I did not say.* And it is off subject,
>> unless you are only interested in Catholic bashing.. I am not into
>> protestant bashing, and will not be drawn into such a slanging match here.
>> Sufficient to say, no catholic may pay homage to images or things. Respect
>> absolutely, as I would hope you give to the Holy Book, lest someone commit
>> sacrilege with it. You could not see, or else ignored my accent on humility
>> in all things as promoted by Mary.
>>
>> The Bible is an incredible work. Consider how God allows sinful men to be
>> the writers of His Word. Even Jesus did not commit anything to writing -- He
>> knows that He can get man to write down His eternal and perfect truths. Even
>> though they are weaved into the fabric of human existence -- interlaced with
>> the stories of sinful human lives. It is truly amazing. How awesome, and
>> wise, and great is our God. The depth of His Wisdom is unfathomable.
>> Thus here may I take the quote Peter used and His comment..
>> It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as
>> doctrines commands of men.'
>>
>> So, unless a doctrine such as Mary veneration is in the Bible, it is a
>> doctrine of men. Peter. "Consider how God allows sinful men to be the
>> writers of His Word. Even Jesus did not commit anything to writing -- He
>> knows that He can get man to write down His eternal and perfect truths"
>>
>> And if you did not hear it from His mouth, how can you be absolutely sure
>> the Bible is not a collection of the *doctrines of men!*
>>
>> *Jesus* *selected 12, many more than the few of the testaments. Yet it
>> was the men who followed centuries later who decided to collect
>> and authorise the Books into a canonised NT of Scripture. "Doctrines of
>> men " As are the Quran or the Book of Mormon!.... They cannot authorise
>> themselves.. *
>>
>> Mary is just a blessed part of the fabric through which God wove His plan
>> for salvation. Jesus himself said that no-one born of woman was greater than
>> John the Baptist -- not even Mary. How could she be exalted above even John
>> the Baptist?
>>
>> These issues are your preferred interpretation. If you are indeed a clever
>> scholar then I must weigh your opinion against other clever scholars who
>> also are very well educated men. *And after that, then one must wonder
>> which if any has the guidance of the Holy Ghost.*
>>
>> That the most intelligent of scholars in the world are unable to find
>> consensus on so many issues raised by Bible study, is fair evidence to show
>> how in-appropriate is the idea that the Bible Alone suffices unto salvation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for efforts to explain your position, but I think you need to step
>> back and re-look at what you believe.
>>
>> Be sure I believe nothing blindly. I said above, "And after that, then one
>> must wonder which if any has the guidance of the Holy Ghost. " If it was on
>> scholarship alone, I would have no faith. I firmly believe that those men
>> whose apostolic succession is proven by the historical continuity of
>> "laying of the hands" in ceremonial sacramental ordination all the way back
>> to the Apostles, and to Christ Himself are the most logical group whose
>> scholarship would be guided by the Holy Ghost; that same group of men who
>> collected and authorised the Holy Scripture and protected it throughout the
>> centuries.
>>
>> I agree, we have exhausted the subject here. Its been an enjoyable
>> discussion. My Prayers as always are with you and all the members of the
>> group. Many thanks to Neville for his tolerance and for allowing us to
>> proceed. Regards, Philip.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:05 AM, PETER CHARLTON <
>> peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is an awful lot at stake here. How terrible for either of us to
>>> cling to our beliefs at the cost of our souls. Incidentally, is there a
>>> consequence to denying Mary as "Queen of Heaven"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A good question indeed for Jesus said 7 It is in vain that they keep
>>> worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.'
>>>
>>> So, unless a doctrine such as Mary veneration is in the Bible, it is a
>>> doctrine of men.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 46 While he was yet speaking to the crowds, look! his mother and
>>> brothers took up a position outside seeking to speak to him. 47 So
>>> someone said to him: "Look! Your mother and your brothers are standing
>>> outside, seeking to speak to you." 48 As an answer he said to the one
>>> telling him: "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 And
>>> extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: "Look! My mother and my
>>> brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven,
>>> the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
>>> Also, Jesus showed us that even he himself was not to be venerated, let
>>> alone his Mother, only his Father in heaven, MT 19:16 And, behold, one came
>>> and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have
>>> eternal life?
>>>
>>> MT 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
>>> good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the
>>> commandments.
>>>
>>> Pete Charlton
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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